1899 Problematic.

Comic Vote

I think it would be safe to say that Patricia is a little broken from the various tragic things she’s gone through. To the point where she’s numb to the tragic on some level. That’s her coping mechanism. A sort of happy nihilism that makes it possible for her to continue. To some that might read as crassness.

Racism is a spectrum. There’s stuff like being compelled to say “all lives matter” when someone says “black lives matter” and then there’s thinking a group of people is genetically incapable of success, or what have you, all the way to wanting to exterminate people who don’t share your phenotype. (I may be mixing that up with genotype…) Rulette’s dad is one of those low key racists who are awful, but also basically harmless. The kind of people who can’t accept responsibility for their failures so they have to blame the Mexicans, or whoever happens to be to hand, but never really double down and actually do anything super harmful. A shit talker basically. They just want someone to listen to them and commiserate about how the brown people are stealing jobs, or health care, running drugs, etcetera, etcetera… There are tons of them in Kansas & Colorado. I assume they must be pretty common in other places as well. Even though Patricia managed to grow up not racist she’s stuck in that unpleasant place of still loving her dad in spite of his flaws. Almost everyone has to go through this with someone. What interests me about the whole thing is how knowing more about someone will shift the level of sympathy someone else is willing to expend on them. A few days ago people thought maybe her dad died doing what he loved in a noble way. Today I wonder how they feel about things. Can a person who thinks wrongly be saved? Should we try? How much is another human’s life really worth to you?


A dark joke to start the week nice.

You can call ’em out on their bullshit and give them the opportunity to think about why you don’t agree with them, but they have to decide to change themselves. I can give a lot of my time and resources and not expect a direct benefit to myself, but my hard line is this: I won’t set myself on fire to keep another person warm.

Sounds a lot like the original owner {maybe still owner, but he’d be pretty old} of Atlanta’s one-time {maybe still, but it moved and i moved and now it’s about sixty miles away, so i don’t know…} best comic shop.

Imagine a low-level racist who happens to be a minority immigrant, and now is old and basically cranky. Assumes a lot about people based on their skin complexion. That’s my mother. Now imagine another low-level racist who would call fat girls “heifers” but admit very late in his life that he has a different orientation that others in his Midwestern community would look very poorly. That’s my father.
We all have biases. As the Avenue Q song goes, “Everyone is a Little Bit Racist.” We have to recognize that we have these bias that can very easily slip into racist territory. My parents never saw themselves as racist, when if they were judging someone else acts like them, they might notice them.

OMG I just “got” her shirt

please tell me it says “eyes up there”

Not exactly…

well I’m not enough of a nerd to understand that language, what does it say?

I read the article at the link and I guess I still don’t get it. What was wrong with the original comic? I guess I shouldn’t have stopped reading Ctrl Alt Delete years ago, maybe then it would make sense to me, but…eh…it’s sort of like Penny Arcade, I like it generally speaking, but I haven’t read it regularly in years. I guess I’m too old and un-hip to be the target audience. :)

Basically it tried to do a “suddenly serious” storyline and flubbed the landing. People weren’t sure if it was setting up the serious topic as the joke, or was serious-serious, or what.

Tim Buckley just can’t do drama without making the scenes look laughably contrived. He’s not cut out for drama in his works and he’s shown this on more than one occasion. Anyone remember the comic where he had a meltdown over the loss of X-Bot?

He also had a bad habit with timing. He had just commented that his comic was starting to drop in readership, and then shortly after that, the LOSS comic came out.

Needless to say, the Internet wasn’t convinced it wasn’t his attempt to create a fervor to raise his readership, and after several poorly written excuses to deflect any criticism at himself, Tim basically tried to ignore all talk about it after that. A few of the bigger webcomics called him out – PvP, Penny Arcade, MegaTokyo, GPF, etc.

He blamed Scott Kurtz for the longest time for his email box blowing up during that point, and losing two of his biggest sponsors.

remember, kids, looting corpses is only socially acceptable in D&D and maybe if you’re in a warzone

Actually, as I experienced in my D&D game, if the ranger you were sent to find was turning into the undead and you kill him, it is perfectly acceptable with looting the corpse (he’s dead – he was going to be a monster – I’M A ROGUE FFS!)

Both my parents are racist. My dad REALLY hates Muslims for some reason. I once saw him watching a Youtube video basically railing on the Muslims and heard it say “Islam is fast outgrowing Christianity in the UK”.

I chimed in with “You know what else is outgrowing Christianity? Atheism and Satanism and I don’t see anyone ragging on either of those” and walked off.

I’m a LaVeyan Satanist (I make no bones about it if people ask and even have LaVey’s Satanic Bible out there on my bookcase) so yeah racism and sexism both piss me off to no end.

I wonder if you’re my only Satanist reader.

I’m a Druid when I want to scare off the fundamentalists. :)

My mom scared off the Jehova’s Witnesses by being genuinely interested in what they had to say. She asked questions they weren’t prepared to answer, and they stopped showing up.

I hope a “Temple of the Reformed Druids” person, like me. That is full-on blood sacrifices, but not Humans. Otherwise I find it hard to get served in restaurants. Or get served what I ordered. Or get served what I ordered without the “cook’s additional free topping”. EEuuwww.

Probably the only out one from here. Or probably the only one. Who knows?

I have a card carrying communist acquaintance who invites them in and according to him, when they see the Lenin poster they are quite scared and want to leave.

My dad got rid of them for our household. I have no idea what he said to them (I went to take a shower because it was early morning) but they haven’t been since.

They also don’t like going up a lot of steps. In one place we lived in, there was an awful lot of steps to get to the flats (let alone the ones to get to flats 3 and 4 on the first floor). They JWs never visited there.

My dad – being a farmer for 34 years who hired “beaners” (I absolutely hate that term, btw) to pull weeds from his fields – suddenly because a TRUMP supporter because he hates Mexicans.

I told him I can handle the Trump support since he’s old and a feral GOP supporter, but I won’t put up with his racist comments and hate around my son (his ONLY grandson who will carry the family name forward). So he tempered it down to a low murmur. Every now and then, however, I have to remind him on Facebook that he’s getting way too crazy again (I blame his age – he’s also starting to show signs of memory loss from high blood pressure and age).

Oh yay, more agendas in comics….

My dad worked for years as a U.S. Custom’s Officer down on the Mexican border. I don’t know if it was part of him before (in my earliest memories he already worked for them), but I noticed over the years that he had at least bit of racism in him related to Latinos. Which is strange, because my stepmom is of Mexican descent.

I love my dad, but there are a lot of times I want to headbutt him and tell him to stop being a damn idiot.

would wager to say since hes on customs he has to deal with the worst, tends to shape your perspective some. I wouldn’t mistake it for racism, prejudice perhaps would be a better definition.
Prejudice, the roots of the word are -a pre formed judgment- in more easily digested terms you could imagine that you have had more good experiences with green colored ice cream and more bad experiences with red colored ice cream. So from those previous experiences you have a pre formed judgment against red ice cream and a preference to green ice cream when given the chance. The word prejudice gets a bad rap these days because people have lost its meaning and lack understanding. Prejudice is one of the things that makes you who you are, it can be good and bad, but people react to it when they heard the word and jsut think bad.

Much like when i was a tour driver, when a group of Indians (dots not feathers), would come, i would brace up a bit. Simply because more often than not i had more difficult times with indians. I wouldn’t treat them differently, but there was still that internal “well, here goes” feeling.

I suppose I can understand that one commenter’s (Mazed) reaction. On one hand, yes, racism is in fact harmful and the movements in the past have done what they can to remedy this as best they can, leading to the somewhat more pleasant race-relations of today. However, I also believe that no matter what, mankind will continue to find ways to divide ourselves from another no matter what measures are taken. It comes down to a “perfect world” scenario that deep down I feel we, as humans, simply cannot achieve. “Everyone’s a little bit racist” continues to hit true as I go about my life and continue to listen to the people around me and their many views. The current socio-political climate of America has, I believe, created an ever-growing number of people (like myself) who have just grown apathetic to it all. I read my comics in a vain attempt to escape this mad world crashing down around me, and I don’t think I’m the only one. Anyway, it’s my first time ever commenting here, so I thought I’d end this by wishing you the best Jackie and keep doing what you’re doing, been a reader going on seven years now *raises coffee* cheers to you.

It’s okay to be apathetic, at least at times. Everyone gets worn out, gets to a mindset where we just don’t want to deal with this crap for awhile, and walk it off. And if you remain apathetic, well, that’s your choice and your right.

Mazed’s reaction wasn’t apathy, though; it’s what I’ve started referring to as Apatheism. It’s the belief that the only real sin is caring about this crap. To the Apatheist, anyone, anywhere, actually having an opinion on something must be some sort of extremist whackaloon.

The guy on the left, here? Classic Apatheist: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/atheists.png

I think the peak of the Apatheist take on things is the South Park episode, “Douche and Turd”. I can’t count the number of times I heard that damned thing quoted during the Clinton/Trump election. And that’s a problem, because that election wasn’t Douche vs. Turd, it was “Serial Jaywalker vs. Raging Toxic Dumpster Fire”.

We will always be divided from a personally semantical standpoint but it doesn’t mean that we can’t evolve to the point that we can at least respect the division provided that such divisions are personal and not collective to society as a whole. When it comes to policies that affect people collectively, we at least need to have proper sense to debate the issues towards common ground. Anything otherwise just spawns partisanship, which only dysfunctions democracy.

Very interesting podcast “On Being,” an interview with a Harvard Psychologist/Sociologist who talks a lot about how “fear of the ‘different'” was really important to staying alive a millennium ago but how, now, it is more likely that someone who doesn’t look like you will be hiring you… or have the skills you need to make X happen.
She tells of a class she had; and I’m paraphrasing, here:

Professor: we will be discussing a study AirBnB did about the 15% of customers who didn’t get a room, because of their race.
Andrew(student): But I have a legal right not to rent a room to someone if I don’t want them in my house.
Professional: well, yes, that’s correct Andrew.

She describes Andrew as a solid built, tattooed, man with no facial hair and a shaved head. She does Not imply that he is a skin head, or that he thinks like one.

(15 minutes or so pass)

Professor: We all have these issues, and we need to be able to see them for what they are. I don’t trust men with no hair on their heads. So for instance; I wouldn’t hire someone who looks like Andrew.

Andrew(student): ?? (Beat pause while Andrew and the class process this information)

And Andrew just SLUMPS in his seat, realizing the juxtaposition of his previous words and hers. And others Of Color in the class just cringe, because his mortification is so harsh it hurts them to watch.

Sure, but if on the other hand Professor Harvard wasn’t hired because she was a woman, she’d cash a juicy settlement in short order.

What Andrew should have told her is “You don’t need to tell me, lady, I already know all about it.”

Actually, it goes a little further than that if you want to win a “juicy cash” settlement. You’d have to prove there’s actual discrimination. It’s harder than it sounds, and I know a few people who actually had real discrimination when getting hired being turned down by lawyers and losing their lawsuit because unless someone said, “You’re a woman and we don’t hire women here,” (I’m paraphrasing heavily) and it was noted/recorded, those lawsuits normally don’t go far.

There’s institutions who settle out of court because they are afraid of what that kind of thing will do to their reputation. But a lot of businesses fight it, and win. So it’s not as simple as it sounds.

Thank you. It IS really hard to prove discrimination. I don’t want to give too many details for reasons that should be obvious, but at one point I had a job where I suspected that discrimination might be in play (I’m a Queer differently-abled woman) and the union rep (who knew their stuff) said it would be *extremely* difficult to prove. And, even if I’d wanted to get lawyers involved, such cases can apparently drag on for years.

And NO, I wasn’t looking for a “juicy cash settlement.” I was just looking to keep my job.

I’m not saying the following, to say that, “life is a bastard, and people or the world owe me stuff or other things”,
…anyhow, I’ve had one event of job discrimination, and SEXISM that has happened to me, while looking for work.

Sometime after I was 20, I was looking for a job.

I know some things about antiques, so I looked at a shop on the US east coast.

This place was a restaurant that also sold antiques, + had some other avenues of business.
My Mom + I went into the shop.
My Mom found the shop owner, who looked like a middle aged woman, + had an English and/or UK accent.
My Mom told the owner that I was looking for work, at this shop, and the owner said,
” I’m sorry. I have no jobs FOR MEN!”

This kind of annoyed me, but I also was kind of…very amazed, since- [in the US, it is breaking the law to not hire someone, because of their gender ].

But, I decided not to report this shop-owner, to the Better Business Bureau, or to law enforcement, for her breaking the law.
Really…it probably wouldn’t have done me much.
If she was reported- maybe she would’ve been fined, or something like that.

Possibly, if I had reported her, maybe her company would have hired me to save face,…but then I’d work for her, + she’d like to work w/ that horrible guy that caused her trouble? No thanks.

So, whatever it’s worth, it is true- some BOYS and MEN do get hit with discrimination + unfairness, when they are looking for jobs.

I keep saying that dealing with differing kinds of racism take differing toolsets. A problem I see alot of is that they keep using tactics that are only effective for a certain kind of racism and use it for all types. I think we need to use diiferent terms for the types of racism. One I advocate is prejudice for fear and ignorence, aka most of what is racism today, and racism for hatred and malice. The diference is that racism goes out and lynches preple, and prejudice just huddles behind the door. The only sure cures for prejudice is time and familiarty, and racism gets the more confrontational approach.

I actually usually try to keep my terms distinct for the reason you cite. I prefer a trifecta: Bigotry for personal animus against some group; Prejudice for being simply ignorant and fearful (as you say), and Racism or Systemic Racism for cases where the social order causes discriminatory treatment, even in the absence of Bigotry and Prejudice.

As a for-instance, there were several long-standing policies (including some outright violence) throughout the first three-quarters of the last century that prevented African-Americans from owning desirable property. This coincided with the equity boom that created the middle class in Post-War suburbia. As a result, for the most part, each generation of black Americans has had to start from scratch–no equity means no savings, means little to no inherited wealth.

Furthermore, the fact that most municipalities, counties and even some states rely most heavily on property taxes for their income means that people who rent get screwed, HARD. (Landlords pass on any increases in property assessment to their renters, who receive no additional benefit from the increase, whereas someone who owns their home is paying tax on a property that is now more valuable, and thus got more equity simply by sitting there.)

These policies often have generational effects that can’t simply be handwaved away by ending the policies themselves.

There’s variations on a complaint about college students who insist, “Black people can’t be racist,” usually while saying something absurdly bigoted or prejudiced about white (or even other racial minority) individuals. This is usually a result of conflating the definitions of racism. What is generally VERY true is that there’s no systemic racism against whites, nor systemic sexism against men (at least, so long as those men adhere to the gender roles society deems acceptable; non-conforming men are frequently the targets of sexist treatment, such as househusbands who have their ‘manliness’ derided for letting their partner be the breadwinner). So while black Americans can certainly ‘be racist’ (ie, bigoted), what they can’t do is benefit from a societal privilege created by policy and the inertia of the status quo.

seems the person who stepped over the dead man to rob his family “Because he said stuff i don’t agree with” is the real shit head though.

Would wonder at how much was racism and what was prejudice.
Education: racism: bad. As it is simply wishing ill on another self simply for skin color, or it can extend to place of birth, social standing etc (there are different words but the same bent way of thinking)
Prejudice: good, as it is pre determined judgments usually based from previous experiences. It can be good, as in if you have been wounded by numerous cats, it helps you be more cautious with cats, or if others say they have been bitten by a particular dog then you stay away from that dog.
It goes bad when you form judgments when there is no personal experience involved, and really it at this point it often is not being prejudice anymore, but a form of racism.

Prejudice can be a hurdle if you have continually had experiences to reinforce the prejudice that a particular people or animal act badly or in a way that you personally do not like, it can make it hard to not just box up the entire group and cross the line into racism.

forgot to wrap that up, with speculating how much of her dads “racism” was actual racism, or prejudice based on customers who didn’t pay up (the bad dudes she mentioned that almost killed the store) or people he knew who were screwed over by particular people, or passed up for a promotion or hire (which they were the most qualified) because of legislation.
I wonder if he crossed the line into racism simply because of repeated bad experiences solidifying prejudices, or if he was the classic racist where it didn’t matter about experiences, just skin color.

Another note on prejudice/racism. Racism, can also work in the opposite direction, where you ignore prejudices and favor particular people: suppose R’s dad was constantly stiffed by a couple regular customers, but he would ignore these previous experiences and not form a prejudice because he either liked them, or they were a particular skin color, so he showed them preference and favor despite of previous acts. Racism being favoritism.

We see this more these days legally in the way of being required to show favor to people based on skin color, despite how they act/work. Sadly, a far cry from Dr Kings hopes of a time when we would judge people not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Racism is terrible. But I’m not sure that everyone who is a racist is terrible.

For example, my partner’s grandfather (my grandfather-in-law?). He died a few years ago and I always thought he was pretty cool. He served in WWII. He built his own house. Even after he retired, he kept taking on construction jobs because he didn’t want to lazy. One time, my partner and I drove from Cleveland to upstate New York (where his grandfather lived), stopping at Niagra Falls on the way. You do NOT want to know how fast I drove on that trip! (A car that was driving near me had a radar detector – I could see it – and I basically paced them.) Once we got to my partner’s grandfather’s house, well after midnight, he was still awake and made us the BEST BLTs I have ever eaten. And we crashed there without even having to ask in advance. He had three daughters (one of which is my kind-of mother-in-law) and he made sure they all went to college, at a time when that wasn’t necessarily expected of women.

But he was a terrible racist.

I’ve heard him use the n-word. (And, in the same breath, say that he’s worked with and respect Black people.) I’ve heard him say terrible things about immigrants (and, I’d like to note, my partner’s family is mostly Polish and immigrated to Troy, NY, about a hundred years ago). One time, when my partner and I were visiting him, I had to excuse myself from the dinner table because of the terrible sexist things he was saying about Hillary Clinton. He used the c-word and I didn’t want to start a fight with my partner’s family.

I…think I agree that there are degrees of racism. My grandfather-in-law grew up in a different time. That doesn’t EXCUSE him, but may EXPLAIN why he was the way he was. Hell, even my mom (who is probably the least racist person in the world) used to say “oriental” until I told her that’s a really racist and offensive term. Again, racism is terrible. But I’m not sure my grandfather-in-law actually hated people of colour, and I an SURE that my mom doesn’t hate Asian people.

All this is complicated and I appreciate that you are engaging with it.

Heh. My father sounds a bit like your grandfather. He was, by any rational definition, sexist, racist, and homophobic. He also could sit at a table with people of different skin color, or gender, or sexuality, and engage them entirely as a person. He wouldn’t even think of them as somehow being an exception–he just thought in terms of groups and individuals, and invariably judged individuals by their traits and groups by his prejudices. It was surreal and bizarre, at times, but it meant that his very real regressive traits had a built-in limiter to how much harm they could do–he would be appalled, for instance, at the idea of calling a woman a c**t, or even referring to a homosexual as a f*g, even while making an openly anti-gay joke. He didn’t see the connection between the two, and so it wasn’t completely harmless, but it was held in check.

Somewhere along the way, we set aside the civility but managed to keep the hostile views.

When and how did “oriental” become a racist term? In the same vein, will “caucasian” become a racist word? Probably not, because it’s referring to wh**e people, and it’s always OK to be prejudiced against them.

Oh yeah. Middle age white male Christians. Say anything about them you want. Nobody will stand up for them. A black (not necessarily from the US, so not African American) Muslim comedian would have an easy job. He could make fun of anyone and no-one would say anything.

To the best of my knowledge, “oriental” is considered racist because it’s a term that was primarily used by European people (especially English people) to describe Asian people and culture. The concept of the “orient” simultaneously fetishized and patronized a huge part of the world and the people who lived there.

Check out Edward Said’s book “Orientalism” for a better explanation.

I personally wouldn’t call someone “caucasian” any more than I’d call someone “negroid.” They are both out-dated, inaccurate terms and yes, are both racist IMHO.

And how do Orientals feel about it? I know they tend to bristle when referred to as coming from the Far East (they’re not East of anywhere; they’re here at home). So how should they be addressed? Asian? But Asia includes India, filled with people of a completely different geno/phenotype. If we’re going to be able to talk about this, we need to find a common language with words we can use and definitions we agree on.

If I don’t otherwise know, I personally tend to default to “Asian.” And YES, Asia is a huge place and includes India, but I wouldn’t call someone from India Asian any more than I’d call someone from Eastern Europe Asian.

Basically, I try to call people what they want to be called. If someone identifies themself as Japanese-American, that is what I will call them. This is especially important for me because I think I have a mild form of face blindness. I SERIOUSLY cannot distinguish different ethnicities visually. (I also have a probably-related problem with remembering names.) For example, my partner can tell if someone has Korean, Chinese, or Japanese heritage by looking at them. I can’t. Most of the time the best I can do is to see whether someone has darker or lighter skin than I do (and because I am SUPER white, most people have darker skin than me).

I just do my best to respect the terminology people use about themselves and, if I get it wrong, apologize and try not to do it again.

I believe Asian is the correct term. If you don’t know what country they are from, most of them would prefer Asian. They are from the continent of Asia, technically. If you know what country they are from, it’s appropriate to call them by their nationality (Japanese, Chinese, Nepalese, etc).

Oriental is a term that goes back to the early formation of nation states/kingdoms on the west side of Asia. The East (Latin: Oriens, therefore Orient) ran from the Middle East to Japan – primarily Asia. No one really understood geography well. Western kingdoms/states would get imports of goods they couldn’t get from their own lands, so they turned to any country in the East. Turkey was part of the Orient back in the day. Syria was part of the Orient. India, China, Singapore, eastern Russia … all considered part of the East.

Calling someone an Oriental is actually ignorant – there is no more ORIENT, since in the US, Asia is to our west and our east. If you want to be more regional relative, you could call China/Japan/Vietnam/Korea/Singapore part of the Pacific Rim (since they are to our west in the Pacific).

Phenotype Genotype.

You didn’t mix them up.
To be honest, even for us peeps with sheepskins that say we should know the difference it’s sometimes hard to apply 18thC definitions to modern ways of understanding Things Genetical.
It’s one of those cases where the 0.000001% ( feel free to add a 0 ) with 5 variations ( and local mutations) can make *huge* difference in appeareance, without a remotely “useful” difference in biological context.
Social context? Quite another basket of eggs….

Didn’t mix them up, but an interesting distinction. Many people talk about different races as if they were based on genotypes – this or that blood. But in practice, the genetic differences between them are small and arbitrary and they’re all based around phenotypes, even including completely non-genetic things like language and culture.

By any rational definition, “Black Lives Matter” is flirting with racism; although it’s technically not, you can technically have “Black Lives Matter” and “Brown Lives Matter” and “White Lives Matter” and none of these contradict, the implied exclusivity in the phrase looks racist, it mimics other racist things throughout history. “All Lives Matter” is, by definition, not racist, and CANNOT be racist, unless you think members of certain races are not living (I’ve heard racists say blacks aren’t people, but not that they are not living organisms). People like me want to treat all races equally and break down any barriers and prejudices; it’s why we say “All Lives Matter”. I just find it hilarious that people think certain phrases are alt-right, when those very same phrases are hated and openly mocked by the alt-right.

Racism is rather unfortunate but it must also be kept in perspective. Recent history has very clearly shown us that anti-racists can be just as bigoted and hateful to the “wrong” people as your average racist. It’s bad, but it’s no worse than a lot of other beliefs. To me, any worldview that denounces the worth of any one for any reason other than that that individual person has directly infringed on the rights of another person should be rejected. There’s a delicious irony to arbitrarily separating our beliefs of arbitrary separations and saying only those ones are bad.

“Beef is delicious.” Does that phrase in any way imply exclusivity? Am I saying turkey’s not? What about vegetables? Why am I leaving those out?

If I say “All food is delicious” in a vacuum, with no context, it’s saying I like food. If you say “Beef is delicious” and I immediately reply with “ALL food is delicious,” what does that convey?

If we suppose saying “all lives matter” can’t be racist because of its literal meaning, then neither can saying “black lives matter”, since it is a direct logical consequence. What matters is implication, which depends on context.

If people had started with saying all lives matter”, and others felt the need to correct it to “black lives matter”, then you would be right – it would imply exclusivity. “Stop concerning yourself about non-black lives” would be the message.

The opposite is what happened. People started with saying “black lives matter” because they were very concerned society didn’t treat them that way. And then others felt the need to correct it to “all lives matter”. The implication is “stop concerning yourself with black lives”.

As simple statements neither says anything wrong. But language isn’t just simple statements; replies always connect to what came before them.

I recommend “Body Count’s” (Ice Cube’s) song “No Lives Matter” (off the album “Bloodlust”) as a pretty good explanation of the meaning and need for the Black Lives Matter movement. Of COURSE all lives matter. Only a sociopath would think otherwise. But, as Ice Cube says, saying “all lives matter” when someone says “Black lives matter” is “diluting” the issue. From the very beginning of the U.S., Black lives didn’t matter. Black people were brought here by force to be slaves; the U.S. was literally built on slave labour. I live in NYC and every day I see (and hear from my Black students) how little their existence sometimes matters to those in positions of power and authority. Just look up the stats on the NYC stop and frisk policy. (Which policy De Blasio promised to end, and hasn’t.) I have *never* been stopped and frisked after over ten years of living here. But I’m so white I practically glow in the dark. Meanwhile, I’ve had Black students who have told me that they’ve been unfairly stopped, searched, and sometimes detained multiple times.

I don’t know if the site allows links/embedded videos, so I’m not going to try to post the video for the song. But just look up “No Lives Matter” on YouTube. It’s worth a listen.

Everyone above me said it better:

It’s the context. If I said “Black Lives Matter” when it comes to unfair police brutality, and someone immediately said, “Well, all lives matter,” that’s bordering on racism. Two things:

1. Duh. I’m not saying that all lives don’t matter. I do mean all lives matter. However;

2. As it’s proven (and I hate when people say “THERE IS NO PROOF” and post a poorly written article using arbitrary numbers and no real research by questionable researchers), there’s a drastic difference in state violence against African Americas vs white Americans. What I’m clearly commenting on is the famous movement to expose more people to that problem in the hopes we work together to fix it.

I hate to open this can, but we’re running into the same thing on the kneeling during the National Anthem debate. Most troops (I am a troop, btw) are not offended by people protesting. However, a lot of people feel uncomfortable by the reasoning behind the protests and their particular bias against the right to free speech that they need a reason to attack the protest. Hence, they are doing it “for the troops.” (But they are not – we fought so you can protest state and political injustice whenever, so stop dragging us into it).

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Kaepernick start “taking a knee” as a form of protest instead of sitting down during the National Anthem as a way to respect the troops? IIRC, he talked to a veteran and wanted it to be very clear that he wasn’t trying to disrepect people who have served.

Your comment is making me think; I previously hadn’t thought about how the troops feel about being “dragged into” this controversy. I will have to ask my partner. He hasn’t served but comes from a military family. He is the first man in his family in the past few generations not to go to West Point (he passed the initial screening to get in, but chose to go to college elsewhere) and was born on a U.S. military base in Germany while his dad was in the army. As far as I know, he supports the NBA protests. However, I honestly *don’t* know how he feels about people making the troops “part” of the protests.

Some news stories say- that Mr. Kaepernick originally started his protest, by 1st sitting down during the national anthem, because- quote- he was “not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.” unquote.

He started doing this form of protest in 2016.
Later on, Mr. Colin Kaepernick decided to get down on one knee, during football games, while the US national anthem was being played.

An article says that Kaepernick, quote- “…explained his decision to switch was an attempt to show more respect to former and current U.S. military members while still protesting during the anthem…”

Please understand, I am only giving this data, to show why, reports say, Mr. Kaepernick had decided to sit, and then later kneel, during the games of American-style football.
By posting this data, I’m not saying that I feel good, bad, or indifferent, about Mr. Kaepernick’s actions.

Does she think she’s entitled to criticize her father that way?

That’s a strange way to frame the question. It implies that children don’t have the right to criticize their parents, which strikes me as odd.

I just think it’s rude and obnoxious for anyone look at the guy who’s busted his butt to keep her fed and clothed and healthy and then judge and condemn him because he doesn’t meet some exalted post-education standard. (I felt the same way about the characters in “All in the Family,” if that’s any help.)

I’m sorry if this is TMI, but my dad fed and clothed me and my two sisters for about 15 years. He also had a mid-life crisis and was extremely emotionally abusive for quite some time. He stold money from my mom, sabotaged her doctoral dissertation (by infecting our home computer with a virus – he’s a computer design engineer so he knew how to do that), and refused to contribute money to my college education and THEN also refused to sign papers saying he was refusing to contribute – if he had signed them, my mom and I could have gotten more financial aid. He fought mom tooth and nail throughout the divorce process, including trying to claim he shouldn’t have to pay any child support (this was while mom was working 20-hour days to put food on the table – I am NOT making this up!) and also claiming that she was “morally deficient” because she didn’t take us to church every Sunday. I think my mom is still paying off the debt (over 20 years later) that she got into because of the divorce. AND my dad cheated on her (I will admit that he later married the women with whom he cheated – and I actually like her A LOT and so does mom. (My mom and my dad’s wife met at my youngest sister’s wedding and they got along like a house on fire. Not kidding. I think they would probably be best friends if they’d met under other circumstances.))

BUT I feel I am entitled to criticize my dad. I know he was going through a lot, but that doesn’t excuse how he acted. And YES, children have a right to criticize their parents. I believe NO ONE DESERVES respect – they earn it. And I’m sorry, but my dad hasn’t earned my respect. He is doing a lot better now but I feel it is within my rights to criticize him for the terrible things he has done to me, my mom, and my sisters.

The idea that providing for a child frees you from criticism is very strange to me. I certainly love my parents, appreciate them & what they gave up for my well being, but still call them out when they’re being unreasonable, or acting in a way that defies the things they taught me themselves. Although it’s pretty rare because my parents are uncommonly reasonable people by any standard…

Thank you, Jackie. I grew up not thinking that I “naturally” “owed” my parents anything. My mom taught me that when you’re a parent, you provide for your children to the best of your ability. That’s just what you DO and is the definition of being a parent. But I don’t owe my dad respect just because he met the minimum definition of being a father.

On the other hand, I would *literally* do ANYTHING for my mom. She is TEH BEST MOM IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and has earned all my respect and love a couple billion times over.

My grandpa kept my mother and her family clothed and fed.

He also worked for the Mob for a bit. The literal Chicago Mob. Given he was a Jewish immigrant from the USSR during the Red Scare, it was the only place he could find work, but it was still the Chicago Mob.

The bloke did a lot of great things. I do not count that among them.

Children have every right to criticize their parents if the parents behaviour do not set a good example for them in society if society itself is acting beneficial towards the content of all.

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