Sick Forever Comic 8.

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Ya boy is worn out. Might get a little rambly with this next couple. Storms comin and I want to sleep now. Gotta get the fuck back up in two hours. It feels wrong to promote patreon at this point but I guess I’ll mention it because I gotta pay for a bunch of doctoring shit now. Yehaw!

EDIT: I gotta say, this is the most disappointing reaction to a page I’ve had in a long time. After 17+ years of doing this people can look at one part of a building narrative & write me off as evil, or at least suspect. This is how things are now though, & I expected it to come eventually. I’ll tell my story my way, or not at all.

62 Comments

Thanks for still creating and posting stuff and even if it gets rambly on the post no worries. Hope you can recover soon. As much as it’d suck to not have uploads for a bit better for you to recover for more story later than not at all.

Plato’s Republic (which I’ve never picked up) is quite a gear change from the last comics and manga Ed and Rulette were taking about.

I “read” it in college and it was a slog. Picked it up again for idle reading years later and when you’re not trying to finish three chapters before class the next day it’s not bad. Just an old guy who thinks he’s clever going on a rant about how smart guys like him should rule and everything would work if you stay logical.

Dude, I know you’re worried that going off the story arc is a problem for your fans.

Honestly, I don’t think you should worry. Much as I love the story arcs you’ve carved, these one-offs for the past few weeks have been a fun diversion.

Get you healthy and stop worrying about it.

“They don’t like my kind any more.”

Oh sir…in that moment, I feel your pain.

Cue the Sheldon Cooper “It’s funny because it’s True” meme.

But of course it’s also *sad* because it’s true.

I totally recommend the classics: THe Curious Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Dracula, Frankenstein. They all feature awesome people fighting monsters. (Except Victor, but the revenge spiral is supreme nonetheless)

I can easily see ‘Frnakenstein’ as a ‘awesome vs monster’ story, with Victor in the second role. Though it’s one of those ‘he who fights monsters, easily becomes one’ kinda story.

“I’ve come to the conclusion that comic companies hate their old fan bases.”

This is all that woke nonsense going around. They don’t know how to write a good story. And when we complain about their work (and rightfully so) they throw a temper tantrum like a spoiled child and blame us. I love reading comics but since Marvel, DC, and other american comic industries have been infiltrated by these useless people, I just don’t have an interest anymore. At the very least I can go back and read the old stuff. And it’s nice to know that Japan has said no to woke so anime and manga stories won’t suffer from such blatant incompetence.

There’s a new comics company making waves. The owner has vowed to tell only stories in the traditional vein, and not go woke. The Rippaverse kickstarter is still going on, as of this writing, IIRC. Check it out if you’re interested.

Sorry to hear the comments getting you down man. It’s YOUR comic, write whatever you want. I don’t expect you to cater to my whims

It’s a bit silly to hear they hate the old fanbase, when Immortal Hulk completed its run less than a year ago and is a love letter to the entire history of the character. It’s basically aimed specifically at long-term fans.

Indeed. I personally like the attempts at diversity.

I don’t think people hate the attempts at diversity. They hate how their attempts are being done.

Replacing the established character just because they know they don’t have a good idea, but want to use the name as their selling point.

Comics have been diverse forever now. They just couldn’t get those characters popular enough in selling titles.

I’ll give you, I can speak for many Muslim characters, but Black, female, Asian, Hispanic…been around so long and people just weren’t buying those comics.

Who’s fault is it those comics weren’t being sold? Writers and artists.

Hell, there’s fan fave characters that aren’t “diverse”, who can’t make sales because of writing and art. :p

“Its a bit silly to hear you talk about an observed pattern when one comic has a counter example”

I mean you do you, dude, but Jackie is right. Old comic stories aren’t being made. And unlike Anonymous said it isn’t a diversity issue. No one would care about the diversity if the stories are good. A prime example is Static Shock of the early 00s or the Miles Morales of Spider-Verse.

The problem is that comic writers want to make stories about Starfire’s fat unhappy and ungrateful daughter, or how Wolverine is now a single mother with anger issues who kills people who are mean to her kid, or how Iceman is now a caricature of a gay man who hates his parents for nebulous reasons.

These aren’t interesting, nor are they empowering for the communities they’re supposed to represent. They’re just self-aggrandizing self inserts that reveal the dirty petty nature of their writer.

“I’ve come to the conclusion that comic companies hate their old fanbases. They don’t like my kind anymore.”

I really don’t know how to feel about this line. On the one hand I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but on the other I’m not sure if there is a charitable interpretation of it. It reads as though you’re saying that “oh, these companies are all woke now, they don’t make stories for white people anymore.”

For now, I’m gonna go with “benefit of the doubt,” especially considering the last sentence of panel 2: “So I thought maybe I’m just an awful person at my core that doesn’t want to improve…”
It’s like Ed knows that interpretation and doesn’t like it… but isn’t rejecting it. Taken in this context, Ed actually does want to improve, but also knows that there’s a part of him that likes being “like that.” And he doesn’t like that part of him.

That said… this could be the beginning of this comic going full Sandra & Woo. (Or Sinfest, I’ve been told, but I’ve never read that.) I hope not.

For reference:
How “woke” was originally used: “African Americans reminding each other to stay vigilant regarding White Supremacist attacks.”
How “woke” is used nowadays: “White Supremacists attacking anything that isn’t ultra-right-wing National Socialist German Worker’s Party-friendly.”

OK, I have to point out that ‘Sandra and Woo’ is not woke, in any sense of the word. No idea how you got that idea. If it’s the new girl/girl relationship, allow me to point out that that was done by Larissa literally at the behest of the devil to tempt Sandra. ‘Sinfest’ is woke, has been for several years, and it made the comic unreadable. It’s the author’s vision and he can tell whatever story he chooses, but for people who read the comic for it’s old sense of humor and irony the change made it simply unpalatable.

Dude, Sinfest isn’t woke! It mocks and makes actively fun of woke culture. Everything woke in that comic is the devils work. People indulging in woke culture are being depicted as literal zombies! So how can you say that comic is woke? If any woke NPCs ever read that comic, they would try to send a Terminator back in time to kill the artists mom. So hard would he be canceled!

Sinfest has actually had eras of various opposing viewpoints. Before the shift to this new era it went through one that could be called “woke” as the term is used in modern parlance. Although it might be more accurate to say it was having a bout of 3rd wave feminism. I haven’t followed it since that general era though so I don’t know how it got from point a to point wherever it is now.

“right-wing National Socialist ” Do you read what you write?

You might want to do a quick Google search for National Socialist. It doesn’t sound like a right-wing thing but it is the text book definition of right-wing fascism.

I read that the way I feel about how Marvel treats their fan base. I am so, so tired of pointless “status-quo changing” events that interrupt several stories I was interested in with person stakes for the titular characters for an incoherent mess that’s tricky to figure out the reading order for and reads like something cooked with too many chefs in the kitchen.

Thor’s a woman. Gwen from another universe gets to Spider-Woman. Cool, love those books. Wish they didn’t have War of Realms and Edge of the Spider-Verse de-railing them.

Isekai is really one of those sub-genres that have been around for a long time but only recently got a name for it. Been around since th classics of Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz. Unfortunately, even Space Jam falls in the genre.

Anime has had it for awhile, too, but it wasn’t as varied as it is now. It used to be reserved for female led fantasies (Inu Yasha, Rayearth and Fuushigi Yuugi) and certain monster based series (Digimon and Monster Rancher).

Jackie, dude, are you okay? That edit comes of a little… defensive. Which I get, I’m sure people are assholes on twitter and whatever, since that’s always the case.

But I also get people being a bit skeptical of the wording, since comic fandom has some loud toxic elements that say similar things (usually ignoring the fact that comics have always been fairly political and often progressive in intent, though obviously not always).

I get wanting to defend yourself against baseless accusations, even if Ed is being like one of those “comic bros” that doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with that mindset. But here in this comment section I’ve only seen 2 comments that were critical and they were both trying to AVOID baseless accusations.

Like, did some comments get deleted or is there a bunch of twitter hate that I’ve not seen since I’m not on there? I just don’t understand this reaction from you.

You guys have no idea how much I police the comments here. You don’t see it because I don’t want seeing it to ruin your day.

From the first day I started posting this comic right up to today I’ve been attacked by someone somewhere & I’ve mostly kept quiet and kept my area clean. Outside of my space people can call me whatever they like, be as hateful as they like, and more power to them I say. It’s their right to hate me and everything I stand for, but this is my place for my things.

I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that. People can be real assholes. I’ve not agreed with everything you’ve said in the past, but I’ve never seen the point in attacking people’s characters for shit like that.

Even if someone expresses an opinion that’s harmful or bigoted, attacking them isn’t going to make them change their minds (Note that I am not saying that you are bigoted, it’s just an example).

And it is 100% fair that this is your domain, your space to choose what is shown and what isn’t. I was just confused by it, since it seemed like you were just snapping at people who were concerned but not actually attacking you. Since that doesn’t seem to be the case, I apologize.

I don’t get why people assume Ed is talking about the whole “wokeness” thing, like that’s been going on for around a decade at least now, so I don’t get the impression it’s about that. I don’t read much Marvel, and all of the examples of that that come to my mind come from Marvel, so I can’t really comment on it, I’ve heard a couple examples were handled poorly but what little I’ve seen (Ms. Marvel and Ultimate Spiderman) were handled fairly well. Having said that, I have seen stuff in other areas where people used inclusivity and political correctness as a shield from criticism, so when you try to criticize the quality of the writing or storytelling they call you a bigot instead of trying to tell a better story, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there were cases of that in the comics industry.

As a DC fan, I have absolutely felt that the people in charge weren’t targeting me anymore and it had nothing to do with “wokeness”. The push for that grimdark crap in the movies, the status quo ruining the Batman/Catwoman wedding after they’d been hyping it up for a literal year, dark knights metal, Bendis systematically undoing all of the massive improvements to the Superman titles since Rebirth, etc. I stopped reading the comics when they aged up Jon Kent, and shortly after I hear they took away Superman’s secret identity? WTF?! It’s like the writers and execs had a drastically different idea of what makes for a good Superman story from me, they went back to stupid contests of who can punch harder for increasingly ridiculous stakes. If I wanted that I’d read Dragon Ball.

People assume that’s what he’s talking about because that is the prevailing topic amongst modern fans who complain that “publishers hate their fans,” just like back in the 90’s the complaint was focused on the prevailing focus on publishers to do “edgy” characters and “big events” (thanks largely to the growing comic speculator bubble). There’s no point in pretending that that is not the zeitgeist among the more vocal, older fans. The thing I always found kind of amusing is this weird notion that publishers (or any producers of popular media) “hate their fans,” as if these publishers consider any aspect of their relationship to be anything other than transactional. They don’t hate their old-school fans. They also don’t like them. They never had any interest or attachment to fans beyond the money they gave them for their product, and it’s really strange that so many fans think their relationship with these creators was ever anything but business (i.e., we provide product in exchange for money). It’s fine to not like the product, but it’s really strange to take it personally…

This is absolutely your story and you should totally tell it your own way. Not sure why people would respond negatively to this comic.
If it’s the ‘Comic companies hate their fanbases’, that would be completely in line with the experience of anyone who grew up reading the classic silver age stuff – anything from the early 80s to the early 00s. The later stuff is just different, and seems to actively loathe the old fans.
If it’s a reaction to Rulette bringing up Anime, well, some people don’t care for it. Screw em.
If it’s a reaction specifically to Isekai, I will admit I rolled my eyes a little, just because there’s SO MUCH Isekai in current anime and manga, and in line with Sturgeon’s Law most of it is pretty bad. There is still good stuff out there and I’m sure she will point him at it – I vote for ‘The Saga of Tanya the Evil’, but that’s pretty niche stuff unless you’re a history nerd.
Keep up the good work, and don’t let the trolls get you down.

I took “hate the fanbase” as the comic stories that actively deconstruct the hero. There’s a lot of that going around. It started with The Killing Joke, and most companies are trying to push the envelope every year to make it worse. There was no mention of “woke” (what’s that? the opposite of “asleep”?)
The joker stories are the worst. I am not going into detail, it’s that bad. Too much for polite conversation.

*face palm*

It apologize to anyone involved, but-

I’m sorry to hear that some people are giving you crap, about your current pages, Jackie.

This is just from my own experience-

I’ve just come through several years of living with an elder person + relative…who had severe moving problems…and some dementia-like problems…and in all likely-hood, she was not going to get ten more years of life.

Also, me, and another able-bodied relative, lived with her, through the years where 1] she was recovering from a major heart attack or stroke and 2] we did all we could, as health care novices, to keep her happy + healthy…for the remaining years she had.

[I also believe that, from the things you have told us, that you have, in my words…[major?] health concerns of your own, while you + your household try to keep your grandfather happy + healthy, while your household’s people deal with his challenges, and any other challenges that come your way.

This is my opinion: I’m glad that my relative + I did the elder care we did, to help a family member, but- if anyone gets put in a situation like this, if they are volunteering or not- helping a family member, or any elderly person, [who can’t move around + reason like an average 40 year old], IS HARD! It’s DAMN hard.

To me, it’s like a military boot camp…if someone hasn’t done this type of work, themselves, they really have no [informed opinion] to tell you how to do your webcomic or anything. Including while you 1] take care of your family member, 2] have to deal with problems of your own, and 3] try to do your webcomic as your main, professional job.

To me- helping someone in your house, with severe [medical + thinking problems] is a very, very good thing, but…being a very sensitive person, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I’d wish them an easier experience.
It is really hard, + it goes on a long time.

People can do it, + maintain themselves while doing it, + recover once [this help for some relative/friend] is over, but I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, just like I wouldn’t wish a broken ankle on anyone]. It is a lot.

So please listen to my point of view- please draw and/or do your comic, [any way] that you want to…and any way that works for you, while you work on your current issues.

I’m just here for the entertainment. Your helping you is more important than that.

Your taking care of- your elderly relative, and you, and your household, and your doing whatever jobs you want to do, are much more important, than any comments or grumbling that me or anyone puts on your website.

You’re doing a much better job of dealing with everything in life, and doing an art job, than I could ever do myself. That’s all I’d like to say.
Cheers.

Whoa there Jackie! You’re far from evil! This is your comic and you’re free to put what you want in it. Don’t let the arseholes of the internet drag you down. You make an excellent comic that’s managed a level of quality for longer than many other strips ever have (especially the political ones). You have a lot to be proud of here!

Just make sure you ain’t runnin a fever when you write cause from what I understand than can lead to some strange stories ?

I read a lot of comics from the 80s to early 90s and also really enjoy 100 year old pulp fiction originally published in magazines. The “classics” I’d recommend for Ed are things like Robert E. Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Lovecraft, ect.

Still here, still reading. Still a fan of your level head and solid character writing.

Do I agree with everything you do? Of course not. Am I grateful for a storyteller with standing authenticity and skill? You bet.

Sorry they’ve come after you. I hope the publicity ultimately buys you a few more patrons.

That one sentence cost me $100 bucks worth of patrons, but it’s become so normal it just sort of washes over me now every time it happens. The world is a hellscape & I await my destruction with open arms.

Another point. Ed said it. Not Jackie. I’m not speaking for J, I’m just saying I don’t know his views. He hasn’t stated his views, to my awareness. Wes is an Ass. People hate Wes. Separate the creator from the content. Ultimately, it’s none of your business.

This, this right here. I hate so many characters for all sorts of reasons lol. I find the fact that Ed hates modern comics concerning (Bruh. Ed, there are SO MANY more comics out there, and webcomics are a thing now too? Just take your business elsewhere with that attitude), but it’s not exactly telling of anything political or moral unless you can actually start grilling the character or his creator’s intentions with this. Even so, I don’t trust anything Jackie says about himself at this point. Sorry dude, but it looks like symptoms of depression and impostor syndrome, I don’t buy the ‘I’m evil’ shit I’m seeing here. Especially since you seem to care enough to clean up the comment section. I still sometimes say shit like ‘I want to become a supervillain’ when I’m feeling bad too. Haven’t done any of that in a while, thank fucking goodness.

Interesting fact I heard: the money marvel makes off of comic book sales is the same as it was pre-comic crash, just with half the sales and double the cover price. Comics have been losing viewership from regular drop off, with next to no new readers to replace them. Comics have been progressive and diverse since even the Silver Age, with the current push trying to get new readers. While the results can be mixed, DC’s metric of only counting comic store sales and not subscriptions when deciding a title’s success and decision for renewal being woefully inadequate, and event comic fatigue have all played a role in its perceived floundering, I cannot fault the companies for looking for a new audience. Business are kind of a grow or die thing.

“fact”

I should clarify that the fact part was the Marvel’s sales figure for comics. It was part of a history of Marvel/Downfall of the Liefeld Age of comics. It covered a lot of stuff from the company’s attempt to turn Stan Lee into a Walt Disney figure, the walkout of several artists who went to form image, Jim Shooter’s attempt to buy Marvel when it went bankrupt, and a bunch of poorly made licensing agreements.

The rest was my opinion and musings, looking at it from a business side and using what I know from other reporting and claims. I have heard enough non-political misconduct from both of the big two companies (refusing to pay royalties on character appearances, running contests to find new talent only to say an established artist won, and sheer amount of editorial interference to the point that some characters need to be written out of a run because another writer wanted to use them to name a few) to be wary of both of them. And Image has not been much better. I have been reading a lot of Stan Sakai’s Usagi Yojimbo work, which I throughly enjoy. I have not caught up with the most recent stuff, but so far it’s been a good ride.

It’s sad to see that people are getting so pissed from an observation instead of just calmly taking the premise and debating it. In my thoughts Ed’s opinion is just a jaded knee jerk reaction without him really thinking about it deeply.
As far as comic books go it’s my opinion that companies hate their old base it’s more that they are too stupid to realize it’s better to create NEW heroes to expand the market rather than just reboot the old ones each time to try and get more market share at the risk of alienating their old fanbase.

We must remember Hanlon’s Razor. Never attribute to malice which can be explained by incompetence. And if you take the majority of Marvel/DC movies coming out as of late incompetence is pulling triple overtime with full benefits.

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