I’m a little late posting because the server couldn’t be contacted for a bit, but it appears to be working again, so here I am. A certain someone decided he was going to stick his neck out and say some things yesterday so now he has to live with the consequences of his actions. He, for no reason at all, wishes to draw your attention to all the links pasted all over the page where you can support his work. He is assuming that there are people left to ask for support. Now the market will decide his fate.

I was thinking the other day about how the internet was when if first started and I have a theory about why people are shocked that talking mad shit causes strife much more than it used to. I think it’s because the internet was largely anonymous until the rise of social media and as a group people didn’t notice the gradual change to it not being that way. Everyone was used to just saying whatever random crap to anyone and it not having any real effect on their life. It’s very easy to sling slurs at people in a game lobby, but not many people are so cavalier when you are sitting within arms reach of someone who might take offense. On some level humans need to be evil little goblins sometimes to vent frustration. The loss of anonymity apparently snuck up on many of us.

That world is gone. It’s never coming back. We all have to monitor what we say and manage our reputations all the time, on every platform, forever now. For those of you who never lived in a time before anonymity was revoked it would be hard to explain the reality of what that was like. Not even taking into account the differences that would be experienced if you were anything other than a generic white guy. I’m not sure it was better the way a lot of people around my age seem to think. I think maybe they just remember being anonymous and free to say and do anything their little goblin heart desired and their waking self remembers that freedom fondly. A lot of people warned us not to give up anonymity, but we really wanted attention, among other things. Now people sometimes to more attention than they can handle all at once and suffer greatly for it.

I’ve always moderated this site pretty actively because it is functionally my storefront. I don’t want a certain level of negativity sullying my area. At the very least I want at least the potential for diverse people to enjoy the space I present. I could just turn off the comments, but I like leaving the possibility open for like minded people to find each other and become friends. It has happened a few time and a few marriages have even started because of it. The site’s Discord server taught me that you can’t just let people act any way they like or say anything they want if you intend to have a civil space. If you don’t go into something with the expectation that people will just start fights because like fighting you’re gonna have a bad time. It took me way too long to learn that for someone of reasonable intelligence. I may know things, but on some matters I’m slow on the uptake.

I guess that all as may be. I set things back to the norm here after yesterday and now I’ll see what comes of that. If nothing else I’ll keep making my fake people say things for the amusement of anyone who happens upon them. I hope you have a nice weekend. If it pleases you to do so I urge you to come back on Monday for more people sitting down action. Until then, this product may contain wheat.

49 Comments

You’re a good dude, Jackie

I’m glad you think so, but I fear your opinion is in the minority.

Maybe im part of the minority, but my stance is one can still be good even if we disagree on topics. Having the same opinions doesn’t dictate one’s “goodness”. :)

I’m in the group who thinks you are.

This isn’t YouTube, which has immense issues with how they treat their creators (the people YT makes money off of). This isn’t Xhitter (the less said the better).

I’ve always moderated this site pretty actively because it is functionally my storefront.

Another webcomicker notes
“I will moderate audience submissions, yet some folks will say ‘But you get to put whatever you want on your website!’ To which I nod and say, yes, you’ve figured it out.”

Now I have to wonder, looking at the previous page, is there a limit on the number of comments or were comments disabled on the previous comic?

I locked them because nothing of value was being discussed. The two sides of the political divide are no longer capable of interacting in good faith. There will be more violence until the general public finally lose their stomach for it. I weep for anyone who lives in a densely populated area.

Yes. As someone who lies just a bit left of center on the political compass, I have noticed that those on the right hate anything left of them, so it gets worse and worse the father right.

And those on the far left hate that one isn’t left enough for them.

Then there’s those who complain about being more center and then whine about those being center.

Makes the 90s/2000s seem like better times.

I honestly don’t think it’s really changed; what’s changed is that the Overton Window is wider. There are alot of things being said that you used to not be able to say. Right-wingers, left-wingers, religious extremists, race agitators, anarchists, tankies, the fash, there are all these people who have always existed yet we tried to just pretend they didn’t; they couldn’t get on the news, so they just existed in the dark, and people not directly in contact with them (for better or worse) could just pretend they didn’t exist. And if they poked their heads out, we’d immediately dismiss them and pretend they had no relevance. But they do, they vote, they buy, they create, they talk, and now they can easily be heard. I like it because I’ve always supported dealing with peoples’ ideas and not just calling them names, but alot of people think there has been some massive sea change in the population when it was really just pulling the cover off. We can see that Hollywood is full of nonces, Washington is full of psychopaths, and the dying media is entirely corrupt, instead of living in a world where we believe all these nice, smiling faces in suits and dresses want the best for us, while we’re all mysteriously bled dry before shuffling off this mortal coil. It’s nice to think that if we just forced everything to be peaceful and orderly and kind, that the nutters would fall in line or get themselves thrown in jail, but the reality is that the people who wind up running the show are the worst kind of people that will do everything but arrange things for the benefit of mankind. Remember the golden rule; he with the gold makes the rules.

There actually is a documented psychological shift toward extremism that results from echo chambers, and modern social media is not only designed to create echo chambers, with the advent of the almighty algorithm it actively funnels people into them, even if they actively try to resist like I do.

People are actively rejecting rational discourse en masse, stubbornly refusing to even engage with ideologies or positions they disagree with, opting to shout people down to make them feel unwelcome and then blocking them in the event that doesn’t work, and this also makes it relatively easy to radicalize people because everybody feels marginalized by somebody, and by telling people what they want to hear and validating their feelings, it can be easy to lead them down the slippery slope to an extremist position.

This has always been a facet of human psychology, it’s how cults happen, it’s how extremists have always happened, it’s how a lot of propaganda works. The difference is that now we live in a world basically designed to specifically support that phenomenon and thus it is happening on an unprecedented scale to basically everybody in some capacity or another.

To say there is no fundamental difference in the world because it’s only the extreme minority that’s always been there having more of a voice and revealing the dark truth that was always lurking beneath the surface is fundamentally missing the nature of the actual core shift in society. Extremists don’t just happen, they never have, it has always been a result of people who feel marginalized having their feelings validated and falling into an echo chamber that reinforces their negative feelings and pushes them toward more dangerous views. And the current state of the internet makes it really hard NOT to fall into echo chambers, really hard to NOT be pushed toward people validating your negative feelings, and really hard NOT to feel marginalized by somebody. This is applicable to everybody, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, political ideology, profession, social class, religion, whatever else. People are convinced they are victims, then have those feelings of victimhood validated, then the people they are convinced victimized them get demonized, then they get drawn further and further down the rabbit hole toward extremism.

Divides are deepening and widening, lines in the sand are being drawn and then when they are crossed it gets used as justification for more division. Minds are closing, and it’s happening on all sides of every debate. That is new, or at least a significant worsening of what was previously a relatively minor problem that most people could go their whole lives without ever being exposed to into a massive problem that affects absolutely everybody.

Yeah, that’s exactly what they were doing before; no one engaged with ANY ideology outside of the dominant one set by the mainstream media, because no one had a voice unless the media gave them one. Everyone lived in bubbles and their only outside exposure was a carefully crafted illusion they were shown on television and in newspapers. Anyone trying to rock the boat was called an extremist and shut down; it was extremely difficult to be heard, and everyone felt marginalized. It’s why we had beatniks, hippies, punks. It’s why we had cults, yes. Now, we’re exposed to far more outside ideas than ever before; anyone can have a voice, anyone can craft a tweet that might go viral and have an impact. Most of the tut-tutting about “more extreme ideas” are from people who were happily silencing everyone in the past, and mad that they can’t do it anymore.

Now, I agree that social media is constructed poorly, making it so easy to block everyone. I miss older internet before that was an option; ignoring someone meant IGNORING them, not deleting them from your experience. Still, I see so much more than I ever used to. I’ve had conversations with moderates and radicals from all sorts of groups, groups that previously were just insulted and side-lined, that you couldn’t speak to unless you physically sought them out. I think the fact that people in the past could go their whole lives without ever being exposed was, in fact, the problem. Of course people are obstinate, but going back to a time when we solved the angry arguing by silencing everyone who deviated more than 25% from accepted norm of the government and the corporations isn’t an improvement, it’s just making that obstinance part of policy.

A little sad about that… I was joking when I mentioned my opinion on pizza (mostly to lighten the mood) but I enjoyed that people paid attention to that, even with the hostile environment. But I do understand why it was done.

I don’t live in the US, I only see a little bit of it through some websites that I read.

It got a lot worse over the years, and now when I encounter political discussions in the comment sections of those websites, it’s absolutely scary how close-minded people are.
They are at each other’s throat, and when they don’t have any reliable argument to refute the other side, instead of accepting that they might be wrong, they just blatantly lie and use sophisms to pretend that they are still right.

I hope it’s better in the offline world, because those people make it seem like a civil war is about to blow up.

It’s possible, but it won’t be the epic throw down that people pushing for it think it will be. Our citizens are heavily armed. The army is primarily the children of the most armed citizens. The people with the guns grow the food, do most of the jobs that to process and transport the food, have most of the skills required to build and repair things. An actual conflict would be horrific on a scale the modern world has never seen. And god help anyone who tries the interfere if anything does happen.

Spelling error in the last panel, FYI.

But nah, I still think it was better with anonymity. It was safer, for one thing. And you mentioned what it was like if you weren’t a “white guy” but if you didn’t bring that up, no one would know. I liked it because you were dealt with based entirely on your words; no one knew what you looked like or where you were from or how you voted, unless you brought it up. A teenage white kid from Wyoming could have a friendly argument with a 60-year-old black woman from Africa, and neither would realize it; that doesn’t happen without anonymity because people just feel like it’s too weird, like they are too different to be able to have a conversation. And if you did really upset people…just leave. Log off. It wouldn’t cause you problems. We never should have sold our lives to advertising companies just so we could share family pictures in a more convenient manner than email.

You are probably correct.

My first internet experience was on AOL and there were consequences, if you said the wrong thing you could lose your internet access, no refund, and there was no guarantee that you could find a different ISP for your situation. No wifi either. It’s all relative. People would know you were a stupid white kid if you said you were, but if you acted like one and that stupidity included things outside the community guidelines, your whole family found out because everyone lost their screen-names forever. It’s definitely less like that today.

Yeah, but that was boomer internet even back then. It was basically proto-Meta or whatever. Everyone else just had a junky Yahoo account and was on usenet groups or random message boards. I remember hanging around on No Mutants Allowed, the Fallout message board. And GameFAQs of course, or GameSages before the name change. Everywhere would have on-topic boards and then off-topic boards so people could yell at each other.

That was “On the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog” time. Good times if you ask me.

I think it’s okay when people still have set usernames and there’s some actual moderation. Something like a 4chan level of moderation mostly just leads to internet cesspits (even if there are some things like the scp foundation that found their origins there).

Making things worse now some social media sites are overrun with bots (like twitter), which heavily distorts things on them. And then there’s the worst kind of news story: some random person on (social media site) said a thing.

The following page, + a few pages after that, tell you more about: Vicky, Reggie, + their parents:

/comics1/1765-wealth

But wait! There’s more!

On separate occasions (Day three for Reggie, day after Grand Hotel Ghost Hunt for Alex) Reggie and Alex separately use the phrase about meeting new “quality people” which has nothing to do with money.

“We are expected to be better because we are better” has been shown one way for Garrett–small town, family there for generations, successful business with his surname name on the door, carries a kind of responsibility to him.

I want to know what Mom Boothe interprets better to be.

Cool!
Yeah, what is “better”, in her book?

I don’t recall saying anything cruel or hateful to you but if I actually have I apologize. Your work has meant a lot to me over the years, but if you want me gone, I’ll not bother you again.

Good luck Crave, I actually mean it.

I suspect you’ll never see this, but I accept your apology for whatever it’s worth. If I wanted you gone you would have been gone long before the free speech thing. If you didn’t realize you were being hurtful I’m willing to take you at your word. I’ve heard that before, but I’m naive enough to forgive. If you want to speak to me I’m extremely easy to find.

I’ll piggyback on this a bit, because reading your reply to Mr. Smile on the previous comments inspired it – I also (obviously) assumed you were talking about Kimmel, and thus focused on the government pressure aspect. But I agree that whether or not that happened can be disagreed with, I fully believe Trump and presumably Carr are immoral enough to try to wield their power to silence critics, but you’re certainly right that they’re also prone to gloating and frankly filling any silence with some kind of rhetoric.

If there was pressure, it seems it was a lot of implicit threat which is still terrible, but is different from explicit action, and I mean notably Kimmel *is* on the air again, much to Trump’s immediately expressed disdain. That alone means something went right there. (Not necessarily him getting on the air, but his getting on the air being permitted.)

Honestly I don’t really think much of the other people losing their jobs, mostly because I’m not sure how real it is? I’ve not seen it happen myself, and really the only places I’d seen it discussed much were right wing goblin dens going “nyeh-heh-heh we made them lose their jobs!”

That said I’m sure it has happened, and I do completely agree with you that it shouldn’t. ABC can fire Kimmel for using their platform for his opinions, that’s fine, but people that posted something distasteful or hell something wretched and hateful on their social media or whatever, that’s no business of their employer.

I envy you, probably somewhat naively, that you don’t currently have to worry about that. I’m anonymous here solely because I can’t predict what future prospect of mine might employ some AI crawler to dig up dirt on me, and in this crazy world we’re in there’s almost nothing you can say that *someone* won’t violently disagree with.

Naive, of course, because you said you’ve taken hits for it before and I do believe that you’re basing that on real data not just the impression of negative feedback. I suppose the difference is that I run a much lower chance of it affecting me in a much more binary way, while you deal with it constantly but in a much more granular way.

—

An almost completely unrelated thing I feel like saying because I’ve not had anywhere to say it, as I lurk in some of the echo chambers in both sides, I feel like the “us vs them” has gotten so much more pronounced lately. I mean, it’s practically the natural state of organized humanity so I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise at all but it feels like the blame and responsibility of government has almost entirely shifted from the people actually making decisions to the people who those politicians are supposed to be beholden to. But at the same time, I feel like practically anyone on any side would agree that they don’t feel their representatives are truly led by them…

I’m just ranting now and probably have been for a while. I’d intended to not bring more politics into these comments per your wishes. If you feel I’ve failed and want to prevent this post, no hard feelings.

Frankly, I thought it was about Kimmel, Charlie Kirk, ICE attacks/kidnappings, school shootings and everything else that’s been going on. And while Kimmel is back on the air, Charlie Kirk is not.

Nonetheless, I try to read all the comments, but the last one was TLDR. I stopped about halfway through because I wasn’t seeing anything new, and there was a distinct lack of attempts to discuss points in good faith.

So yes, I agree with Jackie: it was a useful experiment because even a negative answer was significant.

Not sure what echo chambers you lurk in. I keep most of my political discussion stuff to discord servers that actually ban the worst people so the “kill everyone” crowd doesn’t get to stick around. And the people that insist they didn’t say things they said they did even though their messages from less than an hour ago are still there and easily referenced get banned too. And other examples of people that are just arguing in bad faith.

I saw it. I came back to be more explicit in the apology about assuming the argument was about Kimmel now that I’ve had more than a morning commute to look at it. That was shitty of me. Still, we could probably post pages about what opinions can get crammed in which orifice in new and exciting orientations but you deserve more peace than that. As an online creator you get plenty of hate and it was never my intention to add on to that. And while I still don’t recall being rude before our last conversation, the ax forgets and the forest remembers.

Either way, the fact that you found my comments miserable enough to comment on is a good indicator that whatever the source, misery is being spread by my presence here and I should probably back the fuck off.

I’ll still slink around from time to time though. Your writings too good to skip over. Be at peace

I try not to express opinions that will ruin the enjoyment of my work because I know that to some people it has been there for them for decades in some cases. That said, I’m just a man. Sometimes I am overcome by emotion. I don’t participate in these debates normally because I don’t have the time to do them properly. Battling my own audience is also not something I want to take part in. Every so often I can no longer tolerate the aggregated injustice of everything and need to speak. It rarely goes well.
As far as the history between you and I goes it’s possible that just by some quirk of fate you started using the same name as someone else who was much more cruel. About a year ago the IP address associated with the name Mr Smile changed and so did the tone of the posts. If by some quirk of fate you accidentally stepped into the shoes of a malicious person I offer you an apology, although I can’t confirm it. I only noted the IP change and didn’t document or save the actual posts. I have seen stranger things happen so it doesn’t seem impossible.
Regardless I’m fine simply taking you at your word and starting with a clean slate. If that is agreeable to you then we can leave it at that.

Speaking on a post from the last comic, Pineapple on Pizza is ok within reason and topping combinations. I work at a pizzeria and still to this day I will not understand people who order Pineapple + Jalapeños + Onions that is a flavor combo from hell and people somehow still order it every day I work.

Oh, that’s nothing. When I was in school in Philly, there was this one pizza & cheesesteak shop, Ed’s, right off campus. They had this one pizza that two students came up with that was literally like… cheese, hot wing sauce, more cheese, chicken nuggets, and then a swirl of more hot sauce and ranch. It was amazing going down, but it’d eat you from the inside out over the next day or so.

That sure is a stomach dissolving yet tasty concoction.

Indeed. I still get late night cravings for it, sometimes. Lol

I can understand that. I heard once someone added strawberries on a pizza. And to be clear, this wasn’t a desert pizza. It’s a cheese one. >_<

Building on that tho, I’ve HEARD of spicy pineapple pizza, and have been curious, but never have tried…

As a jalepeno + pineapple pizza fan, I am afraid I must disagree with this assessment. I’ve never added onions but now I might.

My favorite is Pineapple and Jalapenos and Garlic, personally. I’d imagine liking that kind of combo depends a lot on your spice tolerance, and mine tops out somewhere around normal Samyang ramen.

I didnt jump in to the, uh…conversation, but I’ve been here reading for years and I intend to stick around.
I don’t know you outside what you post here, but based on that you’re good people.

The first frame…I could have said that. My mother drilled that sort of idea into us. No, not sort of, those very words. And then we got out into the real world and had it figuratively beaten into us that it wasn’t the case. We were average at a lot of things. We have flaws. We’re still recovering.

I am really feeling this storyline

Its a tautology. Its recursive. Its self defining. If you do better you are better. If you do better its because you are better. If you are are not doing better its because you are not better. So do better.

Regarding commentary: back in the day people were racist because they were anonymous. Now they are openly racist.

hmm, all I was going to say is the sister has never been hotter, determination is kinda hot.

Vicky IS best girl.

For what it’s worth Jackie, I hope no longstanding harm comes to you financially from voicing your opinions.

I suspect while there’s likely some things I’d agree with you on, there’s probably an awful lot I wouldn’t. However, that would never stop me from enjoying your comic. Nor would it make me think less of you as a person.

I hope you’re successful at what you do for a long time to come.

There are things in the world more important than money. I’ll buy fewer things, go to the doctor less, and survive. As long as I survive I will keep posting my work. I hope you continue to enjoy it.

While it’s certainly true there’s more important things than money, I do wish people didn’t have to choose between their morals/beliefs and financial stability. When I saw your post I knew it would become a mess, as you clearly knew as well. I doubt I would have had the gall to poke the proverbial hornet’s nest myself. You’re a better man than I for that; there’s something to be said for standing up for your own beliefs regardless the cost.

I’m old enough that I feel like I can remember a time when people on different sides of the aisle could agree to disagree. Or at least pretend to. Maybe I’m being too nostalgic and things were never like that. I don’t know. All I do know is I find the current state of affairs really depressing.

Anyway, gloominess aside, I’ll look forward to continuing to read your comic in the years to come! I’ve really liked the recent strips.

I feel like we need to be saying,” Don’t rise to the bait.” That works from either side, and we all need to realize that the chaos and division serves the interests of people who have absolutely no concern for the best interests of either side. They profit either way. They enjoy stoking the fires of discontent, like a malicious child shaking an ant farm.

Coming to this late because I was on vacation. Just want to inject a little positivity here – Jackie please keep going, because this comic is one of the things that I enjoy enormously! And, BTW, did not know about the Gunga Deen thing – cool.

I will continue as long as I am able. Thank you for observing my antics.

2887 Under Her Roof.

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