1864 Firestorm.

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There are storms here and there that keep knocking out the power. So I’m uploading this while we still have some to work with.

Holding a grudge leaves no empty hands to greet people.

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So he was hired for a job, tried to do the job, and she’s mad?

Whew. I hope she holds this type of grudge for cashier’s who are hired for a job and can’t do it. Cooks who are hired to get the order right and fail. :p

I might be more upset that he was hired for a job, failed at it badly, then changed his tune.

I know I hate seeing people who get promoted to management, who then change their tune on everything because they’re now afraid to lose the job. :p

Just have to watch your back at the workplace. One small slip up could get you fired. I understand where Carol’s coming from on this one.

there is a difference between being inept and intentionally breaking relationships. This is a work environment and he was hired to do a job, but that job wrecks the connections and personal relations that were established. Its not that she faults a failure to complete a job or resentment towards people with jobs like you described (i.e. cashier, cook) she has a problem with the type of work and apparently the type of person that would accept such work. You can’t just sit there and be like “oh, well I can’t be mad at a hitman who killed my wife, it was just a job for him” or who knows, maybe you can, but most people don’t work that way.

I think it all falls down to the factor that even if you are assigned a job and are doing it by duty, you are still in control of your own actions and it was ultimately a choice into whether the job should be done or not. For some people, the freedom of choice to do the job or accept the position can still have repercussions and could still be the grounds for resentment by those at the receiving end of it.

There’s a difference between the jobs.

One might as well say it’s perfectly understandable for the manager who’s job it is to fire people, to fire people.

However, they’re still blamed right or wrong for the person losing the job. And one could say “What sort of person would take such a job, if it entails possibly making other people lose their job.”

I feel like at this point, she’s grasping at straws. A year ago, I can understand. Burns can still be healing. But four? That’s mental.

I could understand if anyone else in the store (besides Reggie or Wes) disliked John at this point, but since it’s just Carol, I feel she and him need to bury the hatchet.

Four years is nothing. Emotional wounds are the hardest to heal.

I still have to steel myself to be civil to my ex when we’re face to face, because it was my first major betrayal of trust. Twelve YEARS later.

Neither she nor Thomas is the sort to forgive easily. The difference is that it’s much harder to get under his skin.
He tried to get everyone fired. Carol, for all her aggression, is a motherly sort: those employees are her people, and that is her store. John tried to fuck with that.
A job at Megatainment bailled her out of a dark time in her life, so it has significance to her, but more than that, if this Carl’s plan had worked, Carol’s co-workers – her only friends so far as we know – would also be out of work. That’d hit some of them pretty hard; Megatainment is Nina’s best shot at working around books anymore, and it’s Nina who Carol lived with when she was getting back on her feet, and even cut her hair. Jolene is too cute not to be protective of even if they didn’t interact much back then. And then there’s Thomas… What’s more, in four years other people she might have had cause to worry for may have moved on from the store for whatever reasons.
John’s efforts four years ago would have compromised the livelihood and happiness of Carol’s friends. At the risk of using canine metaphors for her, that is not the sort of thing someone with a pack mentality lets go of easily.

As if to say,” Go after me, I’ll get annoyed. Go after my friends, I’ll grow claws.”

I really LIKE that phrase. :D

It reminds me, a little, of a sticker that you see- on some classic cars:

” You toucha my car,…I smasha you face!” ;D

Carol is taking a Holocaust view of this. Never forgive never forget. Which I get. A leopard can’t change his spots. if you are the kind of person who can agree to take a job, and as part of that job try and get everyone else fired. On top of that you are also able to turn on the person who hired you. Then how can anyone you work with trust anything you say or do ever. a weasel is a weasel.

When I was about 6 years old my father one day told me “don’t hold grudges”. Once he explained what a grudge was I decided that holding a grudge was a very reasonable thing to do. In my mind it meant that you would never again trust a person who had wronged you. This still seems reasonable to me. I hold this true especially for liars. If I know you have lied to me even once I will never believe you. Sorry if this seems to becoming political but that is the world we currently inhabit.
~ulrich

I personally hate it when people say that grudges are a “waste of energy” and a pathetic way to live. That’s the kind of talk I would expect from people who never been personally wronged against by people or organizations whom they trusted with every last fiber of their being. Also, that’s none of their damn business. How you use your energy is yours and yours alone.

I agree wording it that way is pretty insulting to the people who hold grudges. I always tell people, “You do you, dude.” It’s your time and energy.

On the other hand, I am one who doesn’t hold grudges as much as I remember people who wrong me and keep a close eye on them if I have to interact with them. People can be petty, stupid, irritating, etc. But at the same time, they also learn and change. Whether that’s for the better or worse, I can’t say that someone would never change for the better and I won’t interact with them because 2 years ago they tried to get me fired (and failed, and apparently turned the tables on the guy who hired him to do that kind of thing).

As a closer – I used to be a soldier. I went to what was still considered a warzone and I had to protect myself. I killed a thirteen year-old kid who was trying to kill me. I did what I was told to do – kill the enemy. Nine years later, I get this call from this lady who wanted to meet with me because I had killed her son. I met with her because I still felt bad about killing a thirteen year-old kid. Miraculously, she told me she did not hate me – she hated the conflict. It was the conflict that got her son killed, not some guy from another country doing his duty and protecting himself. That changed me in a fundamental way.

Awesome story, Khan. :)

Although, while I do agree that people can change once life gives them a good, hard kick in the ass, I also believe that with that change, they owe it to the people they’ve wronged, and most importantly, themselves, to acknowledge their wrongdoing and offer an apology. If anything, to provide closure for the past transgression. Apologies have more power than people think.

Be careful about those grudges. There was this guy in school who used to pick on me relentlessly. I couldn’t escape him, I couldn’t ignore him. So I hated him.

After high school ended, I still hated him. He was always in my head, telling me I was still a target. I wished a thousand vile things to happen to him while I lived my life, having him visit in my head.

Then the 25th high school reunion came up. I had to go, I wanted to see what kind of rotten guy he had turned into. I showed up, he showed up. I went over to him, working on full burn, and introduced myself. His response: “Uhhh…okay?”

He didn’t even remember me. I don’t know who was worse, him for torturing me for two years, or me torturing myself for the next 25 using him as a proxy. Then I read a quote, I forget the name, but I remember the quote: “Bitterness is taking poison every day and waiting the other person to die.”

I’m a lot better now, but I learned that hating someone for who they were invalidates who they are now.

Jason, pretty awesome lesson you learned, I learned the same thing at my Fifth year Hight School reunion.
Hate Eats you up, as I learned the hard way. I don’t trust un-trustworthy people anymore, but I don’t hate anyone either. I don’t have long enough to live, to waste what time I have left, hating someone who wont know I hate them, and won’t suffer because I hate them.

I like the quote “Holding a grudge leaves no empty hands to greet people.” I think there’s a difference between learning from experience with people and holding a painful grudge. I have come to believe in universal karma, as most of those who wronged me in the past came to bad ends.

The people who have wronged me or my generation in the past have yet to receive their karma, if they will ever receive it at all. So, I’m not holding my breath in that regard.

I’m guessing: Carl wqs the guy who hired him to get rid of everybody — but he decided that Carl was the problem and recommended thusly to upper management?

Ok, I may have missed something.. was this particular historical plot point covered already or is this a callback to events we haven’t seen yet?

I can understand Carol’s feelings. I’m not one to let things go easily either, and betrayal is one of the things that will sustain my ire for years.

However I’d like some additional context.. personally I’ve been in similar situations more than once, and while most of the people involved are still on my ‘involuntary organ donor list’, a couple have put serious effort into atoning for what they tried to do, and at least one I would now consider a very close and trusted friend.

Furthermore, I think there’s a serious difference between ‘I was told things were bad and was asked to find evidence’ and ‘I deliberately tried to sabotage the status quo for no good reason’.

*Terrible analogy warning*

The former would be similar to Darth Vader’s arc in Star Wars. Yeah, he did some messed up stuff but he probably believed that it was worth it for the ‘greater good’, and when he realized he had been wrong he helped eliminate the Emperor.

The latter would be like Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter. He actively worked to destroy the non-pureblood wizarding community out of fealty to Voldemort and pure self-interest (whether it was primarily greed or included fear should Voldemort return is immaterial). But when he realized that his imagined happy ending was unlikely, he bailed and left his former leader to fend for himself. He may not have directly fought Voldemort, but he certainly deprived him of several significant allies that could have potentially changed the outcome (ignoring the prophecy of course).

(I warned you it was terrible)

So was John a Vader (made an effort to atone), or a Lucius (didn’t really atone, just didn’t go down with the ship)?

“Wow, Carol, I had no idea you felt like this for so long. Thanks for raising this issue and … you’re fired. Could you please ask Thomas to come in on your way out? That would be great, thanks.”

Lol, no, actually John’s next question should be whether Carol will let this be a problem in the future. Letting this sort of grudge fester for years seems a bit too passive-aggressive. Though it’s also sort of in character: I’m upset with you and I will not tell you about it. (Four years pass.) I’m still upset.

On the other hand, speaking up about it indicates that Carol might be willing to let bygones be bygones, even if she doesn’t say so. At least to a reasonable extent; I’m sure the roasting will continue.

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