It has been my experience that women, on average, do NOT like it when men can remember their words with perfect clarity when arguing. In fact, it infuriates them when they have logical flaws, hypocrisies, or what have you, from their own arguments repeated back to them. Many things that I was told about women, even by women themselves, were not actually true. Women don’t like emotional men. They like men who are sensitive to their desires in very specific situations. If you are moved by beautiful music, or emotional scenes in movies, they think it makes you look weak and they instinctively hate it. Again, ON AVERAGE. I often found myself in trouble because of remembering what was said to me. Since memorizing things I hear is a natural condition for me I simply recalled what was said only to find that in reality what was being said didn’t matter, what was important to the woman in question was being declared “right” in the moment and in every moment where there was a conflict of opinion, or fact. It’s possible that I simply stumbled across these types of women by happenstance and they were not representative of women as a monolith, but the numbers were stacking up very much in that direction before I removed myself to my hermitage.

Generally speaking I’m averse to categorizing traits as masculine or feminine outside of the things that we identify a person’s sex by. That said, the data again swings very much in favor of my preference being subjectively incorrect. I simply exhibit a lot of feminine traits and that’s just how I was constructed. In spite of being extremely masculine in other ways. My personality, and body it would seem, is constructed of extremes that switch seemingly at random. What evolutionary purpose this would serve is beyond me. Perhaps I was just another in a long line of experiments to see what works best and my makeup is simply a failure. Who can say?

All that aside, I hope you have a pleasant start to your week and find your way safely back to me on Tuesday. As always, support links are above the post. Until next we meet, take it sleazy.

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Gahahahaha, I freaking love Thomas. I used to do that to my ex all the time; I’d remember some conversation from years before and quote her verbatim, and she’d either get really frustrated or just start blushing like crazy. Sadly turned dark toward the end, though.

Is this the first time the comic has had a self reference code?? XD amazing. Yeah we have so many years of conversations and jokes to remember xD

Really depends on the lady, and to a certain extent what crowd she’s with. What types we find attractive and who makes a good mate can be so different.

Someone who can’t remember stuff we say comes off as callous, like what we say doesn’t matter to the person we love. A partner shouldn’t have to fight for the other’s attention all the time. On the other hand, picking the right time for a conversation, and trimming down the superfluous details into succinct points,so it’s very clear what you want to convey, is just as important a skill to learn as listening.

As a woman (ugh, hate saying that, but for conversation’s sake I guess) I’ve been guilty of both. I want to be heard, so I taught myself to be easier to understand. I also had to be accountable for my mistakes, as well as stand up for myself when I felt I was wronged. If my partner couldn’t ever listen to even that much, he would’ve been left in the dust long ago.

Women and men both have their bad tendencies that they, well, tend towards, unless kept in check. Men are far more likely to be aggressive, even violent, and generally more prone to practically every variety of crime, especially if we feel “insulted” or something. The difference is that the bad behavior of men is widely viewed as bad in polite society; it is called out and condemned and literally illegal. Men check other men, and women check men, and institutions check men. This used to happen for women, too, probably too much–women who were troublesome characters would be called out and heckled by their peers, at the very least. Now, though, even as we have increasingly cracked down on men’s bad behaviors, women have been more and more freed of constraints. Even women that all the other women complain about will never be called out in public, and when a man tries to deal with her, the women who complained about her will do a 180 and support her against “oppression” or whatever. Of course I too am painting in broad strokes for both genders, but it is a problem that’s hard to ignore when you just talk to regular people. Boundaries keep people grounded, and the movement to erase all boundaries for women is leading to many of them having a tenuous grip on reality–why care about facts and logic when all you have to do is insist you feel bad and so therefore must be in the right?

Yeah, on the one hand I try to judge individuals by individual behaviors and only expect from them what they’ve shown or told me about themselves before. On the other hand you can notice trends amongst groups or types of people and then when discussing those trends you need to try and ride the line of making it clear you’re talking about trends amongst a demographic and thus individual cases will vary. Not ALL women are like this, but enough of them are to make the trend noticeable. Not ALL men are aggressive or violent, but enough of them have been for the quality to be remarked upon.

Upbringing can also affect behaviors pretty significantly. Boys get taught not to hit girls, to always get consent before touching them, to respect boundaries set by girls, to take “no” for an answer, etc. Girls get taught that boys can’t hit them, that boys are only supposed to touch them with their consent, to set boundaries for boys, etc. All of this is in response to bad things men have done, and a lot of these are very valuable lessons, but they tend to get taught with faulty context.

Because boys can’t hit girls, girls might not learn to be accountable for their words and actions, and some are totally willing to resort to physical violence and then scream abuse if they get hit back. Instead, everybody should be taught not to hit *anybody* except in self-defense, but also people should learn to understand the idea of “fighting words” and that while violence is wrong, if you treat people poorly you shouldn’t be surprised when you get punched in the face, boys tend to learn this concept pretty quickly because there’s less pushback when a boy hits a boy or a girl hits a boy than there is when a boy hits a girl, so boys learn not to say crap that will get them punched in the face (generally), but girls instead learn that there’s an invisible shield that protects them from consequences so long as they target boys.

Because boys are taught that they need consent and to respect boundaries and “no” from girls, and girls are taught to set boundaries and that *they* are the ones to give or not give consent for a given interaction, a lot of girls learn they can treat boys however they want, only tolerating boys’ presence when they want them there and any other time it’s boys invading their space and being creepy. A man can be friendly and say hello or attempting to socialize, and a woman might call him a creep for it. A man might be genuinely trying to flirt but totally willing to accept being rejected and respect a “no”, but then he might get labeled a creep anyway just for trying. Meanwhile because girls are taught that *they* are the ones who give consent, and that respecting boundaries is what *boys* are supposed to do for *them*, many girls grow up putting hands on men without consent, not taking “no” for an answer, disregarding boundaries after they’ve been clearly expressed, etc. and if you try to call them out for it, somehow the *man* is still the problem “he’s lucky I’m even talking to him”, “he should be flattered I want to touch his crotch”, “I’m just pursuing what I want so I can achieve my goals”, “a *real* man wouldn’t be so sensitive”, etc.

There’s precious little accountability for women, and they get taught that they should have their whims catered to by men and the world in general, that their value is inherent, and they deserve whatever they want. Meanwhile men are held accountable for the actions of other men simply because they share a gender, they get taught that they have to earn respect, they have to earn what they want for themselves, that they have to earn trust, that they have to prove they aren’t predators, that their value is contingent on what they can provide, and that what they have can get taken away because they don’t “deserve” to simply *have* anything.

Boys and girls get taught different lessons by society in general, and that can lead to different expectations and behavioral trends. Everybody should be taught accountability, everybody should be taught to respect boundaries, everybody should be taught that they have inherent value, and everybody should be taught that they need to be able to support themselves and those they love, both financially and emotionally. Everybody should be taught to clearly communicate their needs and have reasonable expectations of others. Instead boys are taught not to be predators but also that normal behavior is predatory, while girls are taught that men are predators that should be held at arms length and kept on a short leash, but also that men should provide for them and give them the life they “deserve”. People should be taught to treat people like people.

I disagree on it being done too much. The reason it was so overdone is because only women really check other women. This was one of the roles of gossip, shame, and mockery; things that are, by and large, effective against women. It was healthy female competition that kept bad women from acting out, but nowadays we’ve largely eliminated healthy female competition in favor of “all women are 10/10 QUEENS” girlbossing gatekeeping competition. Which means when bad women act up, good women don’t shame them for it.

There is the wonderfully named “women are wonderful” psychological effect. Related is that if something is a woman’s fault, the fault is usually reflected onto the closest available man.

In matters of lurv, girls will as a rule not take the first step, though you can after a while see the signals of interest (or lack thereof). For example, she is hovering nearby where you are, laughing at your lame jokes and touching your arm or perhaps chest. Of course, she may be emitting the signals without meaning it, in essence with plausible deniability. It’s just the way things are and as a man it’s best for your peace of mind to accept it.

Nice n’ sleazy, does it every time… so the song goes, anyway.

That is my experience as well, for some definition of “that”. Particularly for short powerful busty redheads.

In response to your comment, honestly I think that your interactions would be typical of the situation you’re in. That is to say, being able to perfectly remember what is said to you and respond honestly without bias or twisting the facts while in a Western Society.

I feel like current Western Society is developing towards pampering women with soft-authority. They’re currently behind on hard-authority (aka, easily measurable things like equal pay and the like that are often brought up when discussing gender equity), but have vast amounts of soft-power that society just ignores. And that is without paying attention to statistics that the people who commonly talk about these things purposefully never mention or outright ignore simply because it doesn’t support their goals.

Western Society encourages our males to be brash and outspoken, while teaching our females to be subtle and petty. We also teach our males to keep “negative” emotions, such as sorrow & pain quiet and internal, while encouraging our females to completely exploit any and all males they’re with. This exploitation comes in “common” ways, such as an expectation that the male will typically get the bill for their partner, regardless of all other factors, and “obnoxious” ways, such as the occasional story you hear about a tall physically-strong male getting laughed out of a police station for getting physically abused by his 5-foot-nothing girlfriend, which usually ends with him being jailed due to lies and a bruise she got from him stopping her from beating him.

I am not talking about any specific individuals (or not intending to, at least), but general trends that Western Society as a whole show to the point where it’s been in our media for YEARS. A comedy series STAPLE is “I’m going to take my girl out on a great DATE! Oh dear god, the prices are insane and she just ordered the most expensive thing on the entire menu! I’m going into debt to pay for tonight!”. I literally have a song I’ve heard regularly that one of chorus lines being effectively “I’m hot, and paid a lot for this outfit” (I just didn’t want to write the actual lyrics). While it’s not in the lyrics, there is an implication that “hot girls” don’t need to pay for their own necessities simply due to them being so hot (though the singer in question theoretically could easily make enough that their necessities aren’t a worry).

Additionally, the “hopeless idiot” girl found in some comedies is also a reference to this. Two Broke Girls was a terrible sitcom whose central premise was “Two pretty girls who are used to spending other’s money now need to work and support themselves, and are incompetent at it in a funny way”. Think about the premise of that for a bit and you’ll hopefully understand what I’ve been talking about.

Now, none of this is specific to any individuals, but as I’ve been talking about what I’ve observed as trends of our society as a whole, I hope that was obvious.

I’m not sure western society even bothers doing that anymore; now we tell our men to be subtle and quiet and our women to be loud and brash. And very few people end up happy with the arrangement.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Are they always true, no.But for example in Europe national stereotypes do wary a bit from country to country… Unlessnit’s aboit Finns in which case drunk, knife wielding lunatics is almost universal. How much emphasis is on knife varies but two others persist.

As for men and women, same rule aplies, we are different, any one claiming otherwise should retake their biology classes.

I remember seeing a statistic about Finland, that there were actually a sub-average number of violent crimes – but that a far-over-average number of them included the use of knives (full disclosure: This was at least 20 years ago, so may no longer be true).

Gawd I love the callback. I can’t say how much I enjoyed sharing that “Trying is not important” strip with my wife.

What a compliment Carol gives him in panel two!

Every so often my first wife will call me up to ask me if I can remember a conversation that we had about 35 years ago. In spite of never remembering these conversations I merely apologize for the thing I may have said three and a half decades ago. It seems the easier course of action. Cheers and thanks for the comic. ~ulrich

Heh!

Eh, as a man I’ve seen just as many men get pissed off when they get called on their BS by other men too. As for men calling out men for crappy behavior it happens now, which is good but it still doesn’t happen often enough. I’ve seen really bad behavior shrugged off with “oh that’s just how he is” or “he’s a nice guy to me so I don’t know what you’re talking about”. I try to call it out when I see it but I recognize it’s hard to do as there’s immense social pressure not to make waves or “cause a scene” in public.

I don’t agree with your first half, but I agree with the second. I’m not a violent person, but when it’s completely off the table, you get some people being truly horrible with no one having a way to deal with it. Some people deserve a fat lip every now and then.

“It has been my experience that women, on average, do NOT like it when men can remember their words with perfect clarity when arguing. In fact, it infuriates them when they have logical flaws, hypocrisies, or what have you, from their own arguments repeated back to them.”

This is my mother to a tee. She hates ‘arguing’ with me because a life spent being autistic and having to learn how to project “normal” by paying extreme attention to the behavior patterns of others means I’m perfectly aware of every time she’s being hypocritical or defeating her own opinions on things. Apparently pointing these out is ‘picking on her’.

I know I’m rather late to this party, but I have to say; I just absolutely LOVE (that we now can see) the freckles on Carol! …But of course I dó have a particular weakness for pale skinned redheaded chubby girls with green eyes. :-)

Me too, but I’d probably be better off wanting crack. At least I might could get that someday.

Freckles will always be cute! <3

A few decades ago I read a newspaper editorial. It started out decrying violence of men against women. About there being too many women battered by men. But then it got out some interesting statistics. Yes, it is men that do most of the battering. But it is also men who are the most battered. It seems that about ten times as many men get attacked (by other men) than women. Where, they asked, is the outrage agains men who attack other men?

As someone who doesn’t have relationship experience and therefore maybe should have NO room to give that kind of advice, I say: If you’re gonna use someone’s past words against them, don’t make it sound like a grudge or gotcha. Use at least “what about this one time when you…” level of compassion, preferably way better.

Maybe if it’s during an argument, call a time out for your both to calm down so you don’t deploy such a weapon too cruelly (or too open to counterattack, if you prefer to think in those terms).

2681 Meader Of Lenn.

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