1667 He Doesn’t Even Lift.

This is a lot more Jesus than I ever intended to draw when I started this thing all those years ago. I prefer cartoon Jesus to corpse Jesus. Looking at hundreds of crucifixes to decide how to draw this one was not fun. The levels of torture range from casually being staked to a couple of boards to OH FUCK I’M NAILED TO A FUCKING CROSS!!! The latter of which is a little too… violent? I’m not sure what word to use exactly. I prefer to think of Jesus as the guy on the Mexican candles they sell at Wal-Mart. I even have one because I like that way of looking at Jesus. The inspiration for this image is not online anywhere I could find, which is hardly surprising since it was in Kansas more years ago than I can recall when I saw it. Anyway, feel free to react with whatever level of outrage suits you if you think I’m somehow slighting your preferred version of Christianity. I’ve lived through Christianity too so I’m allowed to respond via my art. When I’ve spent my life as a Muslim maybe I’ll have some things to say about that too, but at the moment this is my realm of expertise.

If you can’t bring yourself to be civil to me in the comments then at least try to extend that courtesy to each other. Debate as long as you like as long as you can do it without making enemies of one another. If the girl from the Westborough Baptists can learn how surely you can too.


I actually burst out laughing when I saw this. I’d like to think most Christian’s these days, at least those of my generation, can laugh at themselves and poke fun at their own religion. I’m just looking at this and thinking Jesus is just getting ready to flex right through that barbed wire and become Hulk Jesus.

Hulk Jesus should be a thing. Is Hulk Jesus a thing?

It is actually. I saw it when I was looking for crucifix art.

I found it. It’s…It’s beautiful. I also managed to scroll too far down on google image search and find out that someone rule34’d Jesus, so…that’s a thing that exists. The internet is a truly magical place.

Man, people were rule34ing Jesus back in 200AD. One bit of gnostic apocrypha actually has Jesus as having a male lover. Other old texts apparently shipped him with Mary Magdalene, so Dan Brown wasn’t doing anything new (completely miss interpreted and messed up his “sources” though).

The Gnostic writings had nothing of the sort. The Gnostic’s main belief about the physical world was that matter itself was evil and that Jesus was entirely a spirit, not “Purely a Mortal Prophet” as Brown paints their perspective.

There was a place in Tumwater WA for like two months called, “The Lord’s Gym.” Their symbol was a super buff Jesus who’s wrists were already nailed to the cross, walking the rest of the way uphill. I kept the business card because it was so disturbing. Couldn’t find it though.

Welp now Hulk Jesus is in my image search history. And I was not disappointed. Right on.

He wouldn’t skip ab day, but he DID skip the lecture entitled “Nails: Form, Function, and Appropriate Usage”….He didn’t think he’d ever need that one. :-)

I find that somewhat unlikely, what with his first job being a carpenter and all.

You know, given the fact that Jesus was a hardworking craftsman for most of his life, and carpentry can be intense work at times, semi-ripped Jesus is probably pretty accurate.

And He and His disciples certainly did not skip leg day, either. I mean they walked friggin’ everywhere. It was pretty much bread, wine, and cross fit training.

Don’t forget the whole “flipping tables and chasing people out of the temple” episode. Those are not things you can do if you’re out of shape..

There is some research suggesting that is a mistranslation, and the more appropriate word was labourer, not carpenter.

i think the nails should’ve been around the palm area. just saying

Depends on who you ask.

there’s some debate over if the nails went thru his palms or his wrists, I think

Indeed, the physics get rough, as do the translations. The word for “hand”, for example, can mean anything from the palm of the hand all the way to everything past the elbow. Nails through the palm of the hand with no other support, such as rope, would cause the body to simply tear free. We’re surprisingly delicate.

All to true and if I remember [very fuzzy and too lazy to googlefu] some of my Roman studies they did put the nails just back of the wrists. The Romans were practical engineers after all, even if certain aspects of their culture would be considered barbaric in this day and age. Heh, another word of Roman origin.

I’m under the impression that “Barbarian” is a Greek word for people who don’t speak Greek: All the Greeks heard when a foreigner talked was “Bar-bar-bar-bar-bar”. Do you have sauce?

The current archeological evidence would seem to point at the wrist. They found a large plot of crucifixion remains and the standard procedure for Roman executions would have been to use the wrists as there was more bone to support the weight. Also, there are several accounts of people’s hands tearing whiten done through the palm, and while the effect of a man’s hands typing apart, sending him into a forward fall, likely wrenching his feet loose and causing him to fall to the ground, likely killing him quicker than what was intended, was demoralizing to onlookers, it was unfavorable as the punishment was designed too slow the process of dying.

That location and manner of attachment to the cross and even the shape of the cross have all been “refined” through scientific review. Archeological, Physiological, medical testing, and non-biblical anecdotal accounts all indicate that when metal spikes were used (nail is a little too modern) they were at or below the wrist. The comic is right. The bones and tissue of the palm simply do not have the integrity to support the body weight this way for any duration. Often victims were lashed or otherwise tied to a post or cross beam “T” as metal spikes were a commodity and often reused. The few examples of metal being used are those where the spike became bent and unrecoverable or bone damage shows penetration – again a rare thing. It is not so much Roman efficiency but Roman economy as the process was intended to be agonizing, drawn out, and a deliberate display to the masses. Using more quickly fatal expensive attachments at impractical points on a more involved wooden frame system was just not how they did it.

The Romans drove the nails through the wrists. The tendons and bones of the hand tended not to support the weight of the body and would rip loose.

The would also sometimes not use the little wooden wedge under the feet and instead put one foot to each side and drive a nail through each heel for similiar reasons. But, using the little wedge saved a nail. And made they whole process of dying take longer because it made it easier for the victim to breathe.

Correct. The wedge was additional torture in the guise of kindness. Because people would cling to life as long as the could so would use the wedge to breathe easier and prolong their agony. And if people were taking too long to die, they would sometimes break their legs. Crucifixion has been widely thought of as the cruelest longest form of execution. It can take days.

I was watching a documentary a few months back, and this particular episode was about the Crucifixion. There is a few archaeologists that posit that they could also have placed Jesus’ hands behind the cross, and driven the nails through the back of the hands. That way, the body would have been supported by the arms and shoulders (for added support), and would also have prolonged the suffering (as the Romans were wont to do, back in the day…) :'(

Jackie – I commend you on your self-restraint – I could never have resisted having Edward say “He looks cross.

God damnit…

God, motherfucking, damnit.


I don’t know about derp but I have a sketch somewhere of a Drunk & Bitter Jesus from a few years back.

I had a song from Jesus Christ Superstar come up on my MP3 random-play just as the strip loaded tonight.

The crucifix of my church is real artsy. It like a metal statue of the top half of Jesus with like two dozen metal blades in between the arms. I think its supposed to symbolize the ascension instead of the death.


I’ve always loved it but I can see it being the scariest thing ever.

Kings Landing needs that hanging above the Iron Throne, before those pricks are inevitably consumed in dragonfire.

That is the most metal crucifix I’ve ever seen (both in medium and presentation).

I appreciate seeing that, if only because it’s pretty freakin rad.

And here is the kicker – this would have had to have been approved by at least a committee if not also some administrative types up the ladder. Someone had some really strong marketing chops here.

Since when was Jesus and eldrich god?
(tbh though, I’m more concerned with the safety hazard that thing could be. It looks like it could skewer someone….)

lmfao. I’m of the personal belief that Christ himself would have enough of a sense of humor to laugh at jokes like this.

I grew up in a Mennonite Brethren church, and although that denomination is anything but perfect, the community I grew up with had a pretty good sense of self-satirizing humor. Here’s some of the jokes I remember:

How many Mennonites does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: Change?

If you threw a bunch of Mennonites off a building, before they’d hit the ground they will have already formed a committee.

While most people have a “Family Tree”, Mennonites have a “Family Wreath”.

I’m sure other denoms have their own self-aware jokes, but I don’t know any.

Church of Christ. Best joke I ever heard about us was Christian comedian/singer who showed how he plays his guitar songs for CoC churches. He flipped it over and pretended to strum the back.

What’s the difference between Catholics and Mennonites?

Catholics recognize the temporal authority of the Pope in matters of liturgy and theology.

Mennonites don’t recognize each other at the liquor store.

(I was raised Catholic, guy who told me that was raised Mennonite). :)

For years, my parents had a crucifix that had been carved by an Episcopalian minister. Jesus still had his robe on along with a crown and looked like he was waiting for a bus. Contrasting that to all the Catholic Jesuses (Jesi?) one could buy in our trips to Mexico, who made Mel Gibson’s movie version look like an After School Special, it was down right comforting.

I’ve always liked the more realistic portrayals. The message of the Crucifixion is that of ultimate, perfect sacrifice for the good of others. Showing the Risen Christ instead of a Crucified Christ, or worse showing a bored Crucified Christ, never really got the message across the same way.

Personally, i was just gonna say the barbed wire seemed a bit excessive for a coffee place, but then again I’m used to shop keepers having enough tact not to creep out potential customers. Seriously, a toned down version is less of a detractor to people going to get coffee, but i supposed the openly aggressive barbed wire look could attract customers too.

Honestly, it’s the “lived through Christianity” comment that bugs me. I “lived through Atheist run public education”, so can i point out that going through public schools while admitting to Christianity is like having a giant “blame me” sign on my back through college. How taking religion out of schools hasn’t made the world a better place? Just gave us another reason to fight each other. Maybe i’m the odd duck out and most public school systems aren’t like that, but it doesn’t seem likely. *sigh* Like living through and discarding Christianity is some kind of trial/achievement….

As for the joke, this one from a MS Lutheran ;
SO Peter is giving the new arrivals in heaven the tour, showing where the major demographics like to hang out when they come to a wall. One of the arrivals asks whats behind it, To which Peter says, “Oh, thats where the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are. They think they’re the only ones up here, and we don’t want to ruin their day.”

Yup, bugs me to.
It’s seems You treat Christianity like it’s some kind of illness.
It’s not. It might be rotten, but that’s because “Christians” in majority are hypocrites and don’t really follow rules of their religion (and react with outrage when somebody actually does).
And if You think about it, those rules are foundations for what modern people call morality.
Most arguments I’ve heard why Christianity is screwed up idea start with “The church does…” and by “church” those people mean priests and (sometimes) nuns, maybe Pope.
And they totally ignore the fact that church is a community and in every community there are asses and nutjobs. And they are usually the loudest.
The rest of us just gets comfy in our routine and most of the time don’t really think about what we are doing.

And I don’t think putting a barber wire on cross is such a crazy idea.
Did You know the cross become an official symbol of Christianity somewhere around IV-V century?
Some of first Christians were ashamed that their Master died this awful, painful death (it’s was a kind of death Romans reserved only for the worse of criminals).
I think that Idea behind making cross the symbol of Christianity is so one would carry with him/her a reminder of how much Jesus had to suffer for our sins and how much he had to love us to agree to it. So I think it’s (cross) so graphic and violent on purpose. to shake us out of our comfy, safe shells.
And yet after 19 centuries we’ve got used to it. It doesn’t bother us anymore.
So the barber wire – it got Your attention, moved You, didn’t it ?

Since I’m a Christian and I’m trying to be a god Christian I find making fun of Jesus on cross slightly offending.
Also, fun fact – when one is really skinny and dehydrated abs tend to show.

Let’s be fair, christianity isn’t inherently an illness, but it contains morals not in tune with today- even if you wipe the entire “gay rights” thing under the bus (either by saying the aside from paul doesn’t count, or by saying it does, but ignoring how the majority support this.), the old testament has a lot of out-of-tune with current morality commandments. Sure, many have been removed from use by the new testament, but the point stands.

Also, every church I’ve been to believes >50% of humanity is going to be tortured for all eternity because they sinned, and that’s … not a ‘good’ god thing to do. That’s the only problem I have with christianity, and christians. If you belong to a denomination who believes god is good and also this, I have disdain for your religion and do feel it’s a sickness, because those two facts don’t belong together. If their god is real and interpretation right, we live in a world that, on average, would be better if it never existed- more people will suffer for eternity than will experience eternal bliss for eternity.

If you belong to a denomination that doesn’t believe hell is eternal torment, or that people get out eventually, even after millenia or that it’s just destroying the soul- I respect those christians. How could I not? They believe in a good God, and dedicate themselves to him.

I respect those who believe he’s evil and choose to serve anyways. At least they aren’t laboring under delusions. I won’t serve that, but I owe them respect for that.

But let’s be fair, they’re not making fun of him, they’re making fun of the art piece. I see no problem with making fun of an artist’s depiction of jesus on the cross, either because it’s too metal or because he looks like he’s waiting for a bus that’s a half-hour late, as long as it’s not hostile.

To be clear: the accepted Christian doctrine is that all people are born going to Hell. (It has to do with a sin nature being imparted from the parents to the kids that was origianally earned in the Garden of Eden.) “Believing in Jesus” is what saves you from that fate.

So the proper doctrine is that God doesn’t send you to Hell; you’re already going there. He rescues you, if you want it bad enough to believe in Him and follow His ways (to the best of your ability).

T-Ray, that analogy is absolutely preposterous because it implies that people can be damned through inadvertent sinning. Even the most astute God would be smart enough to know that inadvertent sinning such as being born through no will of your own is grossly unfair and pedantic. Forcing people to believe in God and Jesus as a result of being saved from the “crime of birth” is dirty deiting!

I actually believe it’s a case of changing what you say about world as your children grow up.
Lets be honest the Jews in the Old Testament had to be told that killing is not ok and taking yours brother wife is not ok.
So now that we (as humans) learned to follow those rules (maybe in fear of eternal damnation, cause that’s an easy motivation to follow) the rules are changing a bit.
There is a bit where Jesus says he did not come to destroy/disable/break (? – sorry not easy to translate an archaic language to modern, foreign language) old laws. They still stand. It’s the way we think about them that has to change.

Also I’m not 100% sure about that, but I think there is no place in Bible where is really written that the hell is a punishment where you burn and there are devils tormenting you. (I think it’s Medieval Ages idea and making)
The whole concept is that Your God should be above anything else and then and if you follow the rules you’ll join Him and be with Him and bathe in His Glory.
If not, God wants nothing to do with you and that’s eternal damnation.

Frankly, if we go by Revelations (depending on what your interpretation of it is) most of the world is going to be screwed no matter what. But I wonder if that is God’s plan, or just a result of free-will. My own belief is that free-will is important to any faith, especially Christianity. My own reading is that God doesn’t “want nothing to do with us” but wants us to make the choice to come to him, but he won’t force us.

This is also why I believe he allows evil in his creation, evil is a choice people make, and removing it from people would remove free-will (I’m pretty sure the Mormons believe this as well. God wants us to choose to come to him, Satan wants blind obedience). It makes me wonder how many of the bad things in life are a result of God’s will, or us going free-lance and stupid.

Sorry I can’t let this go with out comment.

If you really believe in a just and merciful god then how do you explain parasites.

I really wish I could answer that, but I admit I don’t have all the answers. I believe in God and Jesus firmly, and I usually put down the hard things in life under the phrase “Tough love is a kind of love too.”

I won’t go into this, but I also believe there is a devil as well.

I believe that someday we will have the answers we seek, but whether or not anyone can come back to tell everyone else is unlikely.

Maybe Hell is where we’re left to our own devices, with no divine intervention. Imagine all the things that could go wrong in the average day, but don’t. Is that just luck?
Jesus said that Hell was or was like Gehenna-which I took to be like a burning trash heap outside some Biblical era town.

Okay, I really don’t have a lot of time, so I’m going to be a little slight on references to the Bible. I’ll be general, so you can look up what I’m saying on your own initiative if you want to look at what I’m saying.

School was never really the ideal place for children to learn about morals, the Bible, and God. That was always meant to happen in the home. (Internet forums aren’t the best place to learn this stuff either?! Shoot…)

Not sure if it was Jesus in the NT or a prophet of God in the OT, but we’ve been told that those of us who believe are not truly the target of those who persecute us. Some people hate God. It truly has nothing to do with you.

There’s… A lot of law in the Old Testament to keep up with. Gentiles have always struggled with this. (Actually, so have the Hebrews/Jews/Israelis. The gentiles don’t have the benefit of tradition.) The grace offered in the New Testament does give a lot more wiggle room, but the original laws aren’t necessarily done away with. I haven’t studied Levitical law enough to go into further detail.

As far as the torture goes, Jesus tells the parable of Lazarus and the beggar. (Likely not tied to the resurrected Lazarus of Luke.) The place Lazarus goes to is described as “a place of gnashing of teeth…” “Hell” is much easier to say, even if the leading idea of what hell is might not necessarily be correct.

Moving on. Whether God is good or not really isn’t the issue to me. Even the best of the Christians have their righteousness compared to “filthy rags.” Nobody gains anything from self-righteousness. Jesus was the way that God provided to wash those filthy rags. We can’t do it ourselves. We, as humanity, gain nothing from judging God based on our ideas when we never consult what God has already set before us.

Christians have a reputation for being ignorant. Even Jesus addresses this when he tells a parable in Luke 16 about the wicked manager. This parable particularly interests me because the manager must face the consequences for his actions, but his cleverness is praised by his boss. Further, when he instructs some of his disciples to go out, he cautions them to be clever as serpents, but gentle as doves. He continues to make this point since he’s sending out his disciples “as sheep among wolves.” (Luke 10-11)

Actually, there’s some hope. I’m not really sure how much difference it makes, but David says something very interesting about the first child he had with Bathsheba. God was angry with David for having sex with her and murdering her husband to try to cover it up. God tells David this child is going to die. David fasts hard in the hopes that God may let the child live. The child dies. David’s response to this is something like, “I’ll see my child again in the afterlife.” I think this happens in 2 Samuel. I know I’ve not told the story skillfully, so please do check it out for yourself.

Genesis three partially answers this question. Adam’s sin basically causes a curse to fall on the earth. In Psalms, it is stated that the whole earth is crying out for salvation. There is a prophecy that has not been fulfilled that addresses this issue. Frankly, it’s a truly awesome prophecy. I WILL give the direct reference for this one because it’s that awesome. Isaiah 11:6-9. This prophecy talks about what it will be like when Jesus returns, and how life will be on mount Zion in those days.

Bear in mind, there is a line of thinking that suggests that, as God is divine in three parts, so is man in three parts. (Not necessarily divine at this time.) Paul ends some of his letters mentioning the body, soul, and spirit. When man sinned, his body did not die, but his spirit suffered separation from God, which is a spiritual death. Note that there is a certain “tree of life” also mentioned in Genesis 3. Its fruit was not forbidden to mankind until Adam sinned. This begs the question, why did Adam and Eve not go to this tree instead of the the tree of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil? The real kicker is when I wonder whether or not I would have done the same. I think the answer to these questions is a very telling parable of human nature.

Ugh… I noticed a pretty critical grammatical mistake I made. In the paragraph about the wicked manager, I stopped talking about the manager and his boss, and start talking about stuff Jesus says. I apologize.

The change happens in the sentence beginning with the word, “Further.”

That was impressive for someone who doesn’t have much time!

However, I really can’t reconcile randomly torturing children for the supposed sins an ancestor many generations removed with justice or mercy …

I was supposed to be studying for my powerplant written… I need to get that test out of the way, instead of goofing off on the internet.

I’m assuming you’re talking about hell, or the afterlife of separation from God people’s souls suffer when they don’t accept salvation. The simple way to answer this is that the curse can be broken.

I’ve seen it with my own eyes. There are a lot of people who take pride in their ability to “corrupt” others, including family and children. There’s a video out with Will Farrel about him and his land lady coming to collect rent. The land lady is a small child. Someone had to teach that child to act the way she does. It’s supposed to be funny, but I’m not amused.

There are severe warnings in the Bible against those who put down stumbling blocks for this very reason. The nation of Israel started out as a very large community. Most of the Levitical laws were written with the intent of preserving the whole group in mind. In several cases, it only took a few people doing something evil to make things bad for the larger community.

America’s mind for individuality undermines the sense of community God set out to establish from the beginning. God puts it on our heads. If you want to see how well it works to blame God for what we do, go read Job. Actually, that’s one of my favorite books in the Bible.

I’m not sure if I caught Your intention.
This discussion might be pointless in case of convincing my opponents, but I don’t mind. I treat this as an opportunity to put my beliefs into words. I found that some things I believe in “for no apparent reason” until I’m ask or forced to explain them. And that I have to grasp them more firmly and inspect. Sometimes the realization of sth I’ve always had in the back of my mind is like “oh, is that so ?” and it’s a wonder.
Silly example: when I was learning for my driving licence they showed me a picture of street light with the orange light on and asked: “what light is going to be next?”. An instant answer was: “Red!” I’ve just knew it had to be red.
And the the next question was: “why?” and I had to take a moment (not long mind You :) ) to think about it, cause I knew it had to be red and there is a reason for that, but I’ve never thought about it much. When green is the next one it’s orange and red on, but it was not so obvious to my colleague that was getting around mostly by bus.
What I mean to say is that I come form a country that claims to be a Catholic country (90% of citizens declare themselves as Catholics, declare being a key word), so there is not much people that would like to discuss religion with me or those who would tend to get very emotional about it. Also some of this stuff is considered to be real basic, therefore goes unchallenged. So I welcome a relatively stress free challenge. :D

Back to topic: most of messages that Bible has to offer are repeated throughout Bible. What I had in mind was a reading form 2 or 3 sundays ago and it was Jesus saying it when asked about His arguments with Pharisees.

I wonder why parasites – they are grusome, I know.
But why not a cancer, or SM or malaria and list goes on…

While Yawnitz already gave You a good explanation the thing is that God won’t be logical. Christianity God is a Merciful Father and at the same time a Fair Judge (and one being in 3 Persons) which from human point of view is a self-contradictory statement. If you think about it the whole concept of omnipotent being is self-contradictory as far as human limits of cognition go.
So You either believe in omnipotent, merciful and fair God or You don’t and You shouldn’t try to understand. That’s one thing.
The other is that when Bible says about just and fair it does not mean the same thing modern people mean when they say sth is fair. The Old Testament just people are law abiding people period. It was not about doing the thing You think or feel is right, cause the law comes form God (and You believe in omnipotent God that has Your your welfare in long run in mind) so law was supposed to tell You exactly what is right. Most of medern people lack the context of Bible (me including).
Also in Old Testament there are so many rules that are more about hygiene than anything else (that orthodox Jews abide to a letter, which most of other people find … strange, but again those rules were written in different times when nobody knew what microorganisms are and so on). And those rules should prevent You from catching most of unpleasant other life that is up there in the world.

And going back to Your statement. The key word is a father.
The pain and suffering is indispensable component in our growth.
Those parents that shield their children from everything that’s unpleasant, wrong and painful are not good parents.

To my English English dictionary the last panel reads as though Ed is suggesting Jesus looks drunk (we use pissed for drunk and pissed off for angry). Still works though, haven’t we all had a night out that got so lary you woke up on a cross and couldn’t remember how you go there? Man, what a night!

Looks like a more agonized grimace than looking pissed but I suppose Id be pissed too if I was up there.

People cant agree on what Jesus even looked like. He was most likely a short, dark skinned man who might have been in good shape but probably not model chiseled abs. I dont remember ever seeing barb wire but I guess people really like to get there point forward in trying to make you feel guilty (your sins did this). As for my upbringing I was non denominational protestant and I used to read those Jack Chick fundamentalist comics. Both preferred to think of Jesus as presently at the right hand of the throne of God and not be shackled to a cross all the time, I was taught that Catholics are full of shit for praying to a physical representation of God when its says right in the old testament not to make idols of any living things and such.

All the same, its seems like a grim motif for something as lighthearted as a coffee shop, that would creep the hell out of me.

… Everyone is being so polite and reasonable.

No, sir, it’s a joke name. Like “Longus Dongus” or “Biggus Dickus”.

Does it not say in the Book of James,
“Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak,and slow to become angry.”

Step 1. Read panel one
Step 2. React in my thoughts
Step 3. Read panel two
Step 4. Squee at the fact that Edward just said the exact thing I thought.
Step 5. Boobytrap the stalemate button

Personally, I’m kind of disappointed that ridiculously jacked Korean Jesus did not appear in this discussion



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